Re: Public response to J. Shawl

[Paolo Velcich <pavel@mail.nauta.it>]

protek@shreve.net wrote:

> To Phil Nuytten:
> [snip] So, I feel it my responsibility to be the one to state the
> response.  First, I am dissapointed that anyone that claims that they know
> subs inside and out would get on here and tell a lot of people grappling
> with what a PSI is that they can just build it using any material. [snip]

Is this a free forum? Has anyone on this list the same basic right to express
his/her opinion? Why should - a person with such a proved experience - keep
outside the discussion and not sharing his [more than welcome] knowledge with
us?

> I
> stated, if you read the whole response, that I agreed that you could build
> a sub out of anything.  You can build a house or a bridge or an overpass
> out of almost anything that is rigid but is that wise?  Of course it isn't.

Why not? Yours are only prejudices and diplay your scarce attitude in design
(which usually means an open minded approach to a request to find a better
solution to a request/need and in relationship to some complementary
factors...).

>
>  [snip]I don't know how long.... They are not engineers but are ready to trust
> their own instincts as to where to go and what to do.

So, if you were speaking to Pigmees and or Amazons you would say "UBA UBA WHOH
WHOW..." (I apologize, don't want to offend any population on this planet, it
was just an example) as they should not supposed to understand anything more...
I feel very sorry for you.

> [snip] I wish I could reach more people before they go and take your
> advise, choose some far-out material and build something that will kill
> them.  [snip]

Are you going to "save" them or just to "scare" them to death? This resembles to
me the dark age of year 1,000 and the next "holy inquisition", please absolve us
by questioning your untouchable "truth"...

> Rick says test it.  Well most of these people do not know how to
> test it properly.

Oh yes... you only know it... would you kindly share your immense knowledge with
our poor obscured minds?

>
>     [snip]And, yes once again I seriously question your reasoning here.  ...
> Would you personally go down in a plywood sub built by just anyone on this
> site?
> Assuming you knew it would hold to 30 feet and there was a 80 deep lake
> there.  Would you go then?[snip]

Did ever Phil Nuytten tell something like that? again, I must be a poor idiot
and a total analphabete (I already apologized on another post about my poor
English, sorry) but I couldn't read anything like that on Phil's posts...

>     Forgive me if it sounds like I am upset.  I am.

Hooo... here you come. You've no excusation at all to be upset and flame
anybody, despite he's a proved expert or the last of the readers. Please sit
down, take a long and deep breath and open your mind a bit... before writing,
please.

> I myself, and several others have spent a considerable amount of time trying
> to caution people against venturing off into some exotic material or design
> practice, when there are excepted ways, published proven ways in which it can
> be done.

again... it really sounds incredible, you're the true Tolemaic Gods and you
cannnot allow anybody questioning your teory about a flat planet.. Please move a
step forward and fall out that border, maybe this will help you finding a new
point of view.

>
> Then you seem to through it all to the breeze by reassuring everyone that
> it can be done with rubber if they want.
>     There has been some talk about PVHO and that standard.  Have you ever
> read it?  Where in there does it list Rubber? Concrete? Plywood? Cardboard?
>  I must have missed something there.  Maybe I should read it again.
>

Pardon Sir, it was never my attitude to heavily contrast others' opinion as I
usually respect them all, but you're really going out of any reasonable path
being totally blinded by your own middle-age obscurantism. The world out there
(please open a window if you've one) is in full colors and dimensions, it's not
a black&white bidimensional polaroid. Are you still playing your old AutoCad 2.5
2D toy? I assume that as it's the only costraining tool able to keep you
confined in that ugly world. I always use a 3D perspective method even when
scratching on towels... I must have a good sight of any "object" [I mean
everything being an "object of interest", an "object of a discussion"... ] from
any point of view, I can not judge it by its side or front view. Can you
understand this?

I think YOU should keep more calm, reload Phil's and Rick's posts and re-read
them as well as you can, eventually ask for more explanation if you're not sure
to correctly understand their words, and give them a chance to be good, honest
people and not serial killers of ingenuos and primitive p-subbers.

Finally, I would ask to give all the other p-subbers a chance to be a dignitous
part of this mankind and able of a "little" understanding on theirselves. I'm
not speaking for me, an unrecoverable heretic designer, but all the others
really need a chance.
Please, show an act of clemence, give them a good chance of being thinking
humans able to discern [on their own] good from bad without your benevolous
hand-by-hand guiding.

I apologize with all the readers as I'm not used to talk this way but there's
only one thing in the world able to drive me this way and it's the total
incapacity to see. I strongly believe in single intelligence and freedom and I
consider it as the most precious thing over all, I cannot resist to any
temptative to reduce it by any way.

I sencerly hope you will understand you went really too far and you'll be able
to open your mind a bit and start considering this as a free and mature world.

Paolo


--
Paolo Velcich
industrial designer

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e-mail: pavel@mail.nauta.it
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