Welcome to the email list Doug! Sorry I forgot about the motor compensation question. Oil versus air compensation is one of the threads that comes up periodically here. I suppose it always will, but if you look in the email list archives you’ll find many posts about it. Snoopy’s motors were originally air compensated, but the air line and electric cables all went through the center of the shaft. That didn’t allow much room at all, so although there’s nothing wrong with air compensation, the way Snoopy’s was implemented originally was just not optimal. For example, the seal was simply a compressed rubber washer with holes in it – not exactly a good enough seal for the pressure differential you would have at depth, and what would happen was an increase in cabin pressure because motor compensation air was escaping into the cabin. I changed it to electrical connectors potted solidly in epoxy, with oil compensation, and have found it to be trouble free. The thrusters have two small holes drilled in the main can, one on the top and the other on the bottom. You thread the holes and screw PVC elbows into them. Connect a length of clear tubing to the lower elbow, and use it to add oil until it comes out the top elbow. Try to connect without leaving too many bubbles in the tube. The tube, since it is flexible, will compress to compensate for the compression at depth of any remaining air. You leave enough length of tube to wrap around the can. This method was originally described to me by Vance Bradley, and has also been implemented by several others here.
Best,
Alec
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Suhr Hello everyone, my name is Douglas Suhr and I have recently joined the psubs community in an effort to make easier the construction of my own one atmosphere submersible. I am currently 18 years old and I live in the small town of Oil City PA. We are in close proximity to the city of Titusville where oil was first discovered in the US. We are also about an hour South of Erie and about 2 hours north of Pittsburgh. Now I have been planning the construction of my submersible, named Spirit of Calypso, for some time now and I am hoping to begin construction of the pressure hull in the near future. I have already contacted both Mr. Jon Wallace and Mr. Alec Smyth concerning assistance, and they recommended that I post a general notice on this email list, so I am going post my letters to them in hopes that they will answer some questions about my project. Please feel free to ask me any questions you have about my project and I will answer them as best I can. Obviously I will be asking many questions myself pertaining to methods of construction and fabrication, etc. The first letter was sent to Jon Wallace, then to Alec Smyth. The second letter is a response to Alec Smyth regarding questions he had pertaining to the first letter. Just to clear up any confusion on propulsion, we are planning to use three Minn-Kota trolling motors in a K-250 configuration. Thank you everyone, and I look forward to getting to know everyone here and getting some of my questions answered! ~ Douglas Suhr Greetings Mr. Jon Wallace, My name is Douglas Suhr. I am currently 18 years old and a senior in high school. I live in Oil City, Pennsylvania with my parents, Sarah and Doug. I have been interested in building, owning and operating my own one atmosphere submersible for some time now. I have recently joined psubs.org in an effort to assist in fulfilling my underwater dream. I could spend a great deal of time (and paper!) explaining every little detail of my personal history as it relates to diving and underwater exploration, but I don’t feel that this is the time or place to do that. However, I would like to give you a relatively brief synopsis of my personal history pertaining to diving and my quest to dive in the comfort and safety of one atmosphere. I feel that once I explain my circumstances and position, you will have an easier time of assisting me in fulfilling the difficult goal of constructing my own submersible. Both of my parents were SCUBA divers before I was even born. My dad was a lifeguard instructor and was trained in SCUBA diving in his early twenties. My mom learned to dive after meeting my dad. Not only are they “life partners,” they are dive partners. So needless to say, I grew up around the sport of recreational diving. I had my first underwater experience when I was 8 years old. Too small to wear a tank, I used my dad’s hookah rig. With both of my parents, one on either side, I explored some underwater rock formations in about 12 feet of clear Canadian lake water. This was a true life-changing experience because from that point on, I loved the water. I spent the next few years slowly gaining more experience underwater, eventually graduating to using a traditional SCUBA tank. Then, for my 11th birthday, my parents purchased me a BellAqua B.O.B. I spent a good year and a half with my little ambient wet sub before I was dreaming of diving in one atmosphere – what I regarded as “the professional way.” As most 12-year-old boys are, I was quite ambitious and eager to get started building my submarine. My dad, though, told me that it would be “prudent to do some research first.” I spent a great deal of time that year playing “online sleuth,” trying to find the best way to go about home-building a submarine. As you might imagine, it didn’t take me long to discover psubs.org! I received a great deal of inspiration from psubs, as well as from movies like Men of Honor and Grey Lady Down. My grandpa was also a huge source of inspiration, showing me a diving helmet that he built in a college class back in the 50’s! But after learning some of the “methods to the madness,” I was overwhelmed as a 12 year old boy. The cost and complexity necessary was just beyond our means. I didn’t give up hope completely, but I decided to put the submersible project on the “back burner” for a while. Several years now pass by. Another three years went by and I was now in the 8th grade. A renewed interest in the project prompted me to contact Captain George Kittredge and Mr. Ian Ellis about their UEM submarine. At the time, they were trying to find a buyer for the proto-type vessel. I could not help but entertain the thought of purchasing the submarine, but I just wasn’t able to persuade my parents to make the investment. Instead, I settled for purchasing a set of the UEM plans. When I received the plans a few days later in the mail, I was surprised to see that the Captain had included a free copy of his book, along with a very nice letter to me. Our correspondence transpired through the winter of 2008, but Captain Kittredge asked if I would come to his location in Maine to try out the UEM in his test tank when the weather brightened up a bit. He described a sort of new lexan propeller that he wanted me to see. Unfortunately, due to my parents busy work schedules, we never made the trip up to see him. I am saddened to see that he has passed away because he sounded like a really nice guy who I would love to get to know. Over the next year, my dad and I looked over the UEM plans. We also purchased the “diving trials” DVD, which enabled us to view the vessel in action. No doubt that this is a formidable submersible design, but after much consideration, we decided that the dome hatch is just not what we want. Instead, we want to build a K-Tree 50: the name we gave to our hybrid design. The “tree” is a combination “two” and “three.” The tree also symbolizes the environmental friendliness of the UEM design. Basically, It’s the hull of the UEM/K-250 with the steel conning tower assembly of the K-350. Maximum safe operational depth would be 250 feet. One of the biggest design goals is to keep the vessel as simple as possible. That probably means the exclusion of a variable ballast tank. We are also working to keep the vessel simple by designing a very simplistic (thus safe) aspirating cabin refreshment system for breathing air replenishment and by rethinking the traditional launch and recovery methods. On a side-note, we have decided to name the vessel Spirit of Calypso after John Denver’s song pertaining to Jacques Cousteau’s research ship. This design modification is what prompted me to order the 4 acrylic viewports from psubs in 2009. Obviously the UEM plans don’t cover the construction of a conning tower assembly, so we will need much assistance with this, hopefully from fellow psubs members. I know that safety is of utmost importance to the psubs community. It is most definitely the same way here on our end. No doubt that the main goal of this undertaking is to have fun, and attending a funeral is not considered fun. Dad and I understand the inherent risks of building and operating a piece of life-supporting equipment, and we most certainly do not take it lightly. After thoroughly constructing and testing our submersible, we plan to have a series of well-thought operations guidelines (like never operating the vessel in areas where bottom depths exceed 250 feet, thus avoiding any possibility of crushing). We also plan to have a very regulated set of emergency procedures so that if, heaven forbid, an emergency situation would arise, we are prepared. Of course this also includes thorough pre-dive checks on all emergency equipment (what good is a weight release system if it hasn’t been moved in so long that its frozen!?!?). Anyway, I’m sure you get the point that we are very safety oriented people ourselves. No more “Seeker 100” foolishness. I am currently working to earn my private pilot’s license and subsequently own a share of a Cessna 172 Skyhawk. Our airplane is treated with love and respect, more like a person than an airplane. I am of the mind that applying this philosophy to our submersible is a good idea: Treat her with love and respect every time, and she will bring you back to the surface, every time. As a matter of fact, we just lost a couple of guys from our airport to a crash last summer (summer of 10’). This fall the official FAA report came out. Result: CFT – Controlled Flight into Terrain. In other words, they were treating her like a Las Vegas hooker, not a mother or girlfriend. Concerning our capabilities, this summer we just completed a new garage/workshop that will provide us with plenty of fabrication space. We have a Kubota tractor with forks, as well as a homebuilt gantry crane. We have both an oxy-acetylene rig and a buzz box. And of course all the basic tools that you would expect to find in a shop. We don’t have a metal lathe and probably won’t be buying one in the near future, but we do know some really great local fabricators who I’m sure will come in handy! If such help is available from the psubs community, we might ask for some specialized parts to be made for us (?). We aren’t the greatest at welding yet, so we will most likely ask a professional to do the critical welds for us. We are just finishing up our first major steel project, which is the construction of a one ton, 8-inch siege mortar. This involved ordering, cutting and welding 1-inch plate, and gave us some practical experience with ordering and handling large pieces of steel. If you would like, I’ll send you a picture of the gun when he is complete (his name is Barker). Barker will be finished up by May, which is also when I’ll be graduating from high school and subsequently finding a tremendous amount of free time on my hands! I plan to start construction of the Spirit of Calypso in early June. To date, I have saved approximately $11,500.00 to start the project. I deem this amount large enough to start construction, for more funding will materialize as time passes. Because both my dad and I will have a lot of free time on our hands, I’d really like to see if we might accomplish the bulk of the construction in a span of two years, beginning this June. We have access to housing and boats (through family members) on Lake Kamaniskeg in Canada, Lake Chautauqua in New York and down in the Florida Keys as well. We are familiar with diving in all three of these locations, and they will make great testing facilities when the time comes. We have a large suburban for towing a heavy submersible, as well as deep-ramp launching facilities in Canada and New York. Down in Florida, we have davits and a canal. We have no vessel large enough to carry the sub, but plenty that we could tow with. This is why a strong tow ring will be essential! I have obtained a Minn Kota trolling motor that I have been fooling with, and I’m working with my dad to build an approximate model of the sub out of PVC pipe and wood. Again, if you like, I’ll email photos of these items when completed. We will be going down to our relative’s cottage in the keys this Easter for vacation, at which time I am going to snap a few pictures of two one-atm submersibles in the area. Both retired, one rests at a boy scouts camp and is very large (48 inch dome). The other, down the Keys a ways in Marathon, appears to be a Kittredge designed vessel. It has been sitting there for years. I will forward pictures of both of these vessels to you when I get them if you wish. Now when the Spirit of Calypso is complete, I plan to use it for research and educational purposes, including my own as well as others. I also plan to do some wreck diving down in the Florida Keys. As we design the submersible, we are incorporating various elements into the design that will make salt water operations easier, from buoyancy control to corrosion resistance. My dad is an electrical engineer by trade, so he will be exceptional with the wiring of the sub. I understand that at this point, I don’t even have a submersible, so that really takes precedence, but in the future, I would love to become a more active member of the psubs community, organizing PR events in my area to promote the safe construction and operation of personal submersibles. I feel a tiny bit guilty that I live in PA because I saw that you folks are trying to extend coverage South Westward, but I will say that once the submersible is complete, we will definitely have the ability to travel with it! I thank you so much, Mr. Wallace for taking the time to read this “long” letter. I have accomplished the objective of informing you of my position. My second objective is to ask you for assistance. Could you make yourself personally available (via email), or connect us to someone else in the psubs community (with experience) who could make themselves personally available to assist us? We will have many questions about many specific things. I know that since we are now a member of psubs.org we can post questions, but I don’t think this is the best method when we have so many questions to ask. What do you recommend? Thank you again. Sincerely, Douglas Suhr Douglas Henry Suhr Jr. 9 Shady Oak Lane, Oil City, PA 16301 (814)676-5236 Well greetings to you Captain Smyth! I really appreciate you reading my letter! Moreover, I am so pleased to hear that I made your day! I was a little nervous as to the reception I might receive from the psubs community when they learn of my young age, but my fears have diminished since receiving your hopeful words of encouragement! I also really appreciate your willingness to answer questions… I’ll try not to bombard you, but I do have many topics to discuss. I have a feeling that a group like psubs is a well-knit community because we are brought together by something we are all very passionate about, and this is definitely a good thing. I apologize pertaining to the vagueness in my letter concerning propulsion of the submersible. After re-reading it myself, it is more than understandable how a reader would be confused. To clear it up, let me explain that we are only using the UEM plans as a basis for main hull design. In retrospect, purchasing the K-250 plans would have been much more helpful. Daddy and I agree that trying to pedal-power a submersible of the Kittredge design would be strenuous exercise, not to mention the resulting dramatic increase in human air consumption through natural respiration. No, we plan to power our sub with three thrusters in the same configuration as your Snoopy. As I mentioned in my letter, I have already started to fool around a little bit with a minn kota trolling motor. Pressure compensation, rotation of the motors and power-to-power through hulls are all on the “consideration board” at this time concerning the propulsion. How are Snoopy’s thrusters pressure compensated (oil?/air?)? I have a very common-sensish approach to my projects. Overall, this is a good thing, but I have found that at times this method is at fault for omitting small but important details. But anyway, here goes: I have split the in-shop construction of the submersible into 5 stages, those being: 1. Pressure Hull ~ (including skids, windows, conning tower, hatch, etc.). 2. Buoyancy Control ~ (including hoods, ballast, drop weights, tanks, plumbing, etc.). 3. Propulsion ~ (including two amidships and one stern thruster, battery bank, controllers, etc.) 4. Cabin Environment ~ (including fresh air replenishment, life support, monitors and alarms, interior lighting, seating, etc.) 5. Electronics and Gauges ~ (including master pressure gauge panel, master battery bank panel, exterior lighting, robotic arm and excavation vacuum, various instrumentation like depth gauge, compass, thermometer, etc. as well as sub-to-surface communications and eventually sonar). As I mentioned, daddy and I are working on a 1/12 scale model of the submersible. As we do so, we are “mapping out” where we want certain assemblies placed, how we will fabricate them, etc. Although we most likely won’t have every little detail figured out until after we start construction, I feel that it’s a good idea to figure out most of the details before we start to build. The fear is ever-present in my mind that after we complete the bulk of the assembly, we’ll realize that we forgot to add something early on that now requires the dismantling of the newly built vessel. So having a well-mapped construction plan is my basic strategy. Pertaining to our electric welder, we have a Lincoln Electric weldmark ac/dc arc welder. My dad does some welding now, but I think you have a very good point in learning the trade well. I suppose it’s a pretty universal skill that will stand you in good stead, regardless of whether you’re building a submersible or not. We are thinking about enrolling in welding classes together this summer at our local vocational school. As far as sharing my first correspondence, I think your idea is a good one. I will make a post on psubs explaining my position and project, but first I’ll wait to hear back from Jon Wallace. I may actually write up a separate statement for the post, including things that weren’t in the first letter, like the 5-stage construction plan. So about your motors… Sincerely, Douglas S.
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 4:45 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: [SPAM] [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Member!