Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ambient Death Trap

[Gregory Cotton <gregc02@gmail.com>]

When diving in Argonaut Jr we were normally equalized to the bottom of
the diver hatch (which had an overpressure poppet valve) which was
about 8 ft below the top hatch. That works out to about 3.5 psi or
about 2,000 lbs of lift on the 24" x 24" hatch. With the latches Doug
used you'd have to pop the latches which would let the hatch open
about 2", which would vent the remaining air and then swing the 4
hooks out of the eyes to open the hatch. Of course, if you were
sitting on the bottom, the better method would be to open the diver
hatch and duck out the bottom, assuming the bottom was hard enough to
not let the wheels sink which would leave the bottom hatch clear.

It was a fun, proof of concept, boat but a lot of work to take to the
lake and then load 10,000 lbs of ballast lead. To unload all that lead
Doug just parked the boat on the submerged trailer, pressurized the
boat, opened the diver hatch and tossed the lead ingots onto the
trailer. He unloaded the 3,000 lbs of drop weight onto the trailer by
just pulling the lever. The wheels and axles weren't rated to take
more that about 3,000 lbs of the 13,000 lbs of ballast when out of the
water.

A fun adventure!

On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Alex <spm2@nomad.ignorelist.com> wrote:
> Can you make a latch that opens even when the hatch is being pulled up? Maybe
> some kind of emergency screw thing that you can screw in and push the latch
> open with.
>
>
> On 11-Sep-2011 Alan James wrote:
>> If the sub had 1000 liters of cabin space & was at 100ft the
>> air would compress to 1/4 & give 250kg lift. But as you say
>> at 33ft there would be 500kg lift.
>> I may be wrong, but if the sub had a 4ft diameter hull & at 33ft you
>> equalized the hull,
>> the water level inside would be half way up & the pressure inside would be
>> the same as the
>> sea water pressure at that corresponding height in the water column outside.
>> The hatch two feet above would see a 1psi pressure above it's surrounding
>> water.
>> So multiply the square inch area of the hatch to get the pressure on it.
>> Regards Alan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>   From: Hugh Fulton
>>   To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>   Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 10:13 AM
>>   Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ambient Death Trap
>>
>>
>>   How does Carsten get to ź ton?  That is 250 litres.  Is that correct?
>> Wouldn't it depend on depth as to how much air you have in
>> the sub.  The shallower, the more air, the more lift.  It should only be the
>> projected area of the dome seal to the water level plus
>> the dome volume minus the dome weight.  I am not disputing Carsten's figures
>> as he mentions water level but just asking if there is
>> any agreement on how it is calculated ?  The rule of unlocking before
>> flooding is the most important.  As Alan says an Ambient would
>> pose a problem.   Hugh.
>>
>>
>>
>>   From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>> [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James
>>   Sent: Sunday, 11 September 2011 7:39 a.m.
>>   To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>   Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ambient Death Trap
>>
>>
>>
>>   After Carsten's posts on his submarine escape practice it occurred to me
>> that
>>
>>   it would be very difficult to escape from an ambient submarine.
>>
>>   >>>  First you have 30 Liters air in the dome create a lot of lift. And if
>> you flood the boat you have a overpressure in the sub
>> (distance of the compressed air  from the inside water level to the hatch
>> seal) which create also a hell of lift to the dome
>> latches - about a quader of a ton..
>>   At the end you can not open the dome.
>>
>>   Rule : ALWAYS unlock the dome you want to exit before you flood the sub..
>>
>>   In an Ambient sub the pressure inside is the same as the water pressure
>> outside at a certain point in the water column.
>>
>>   So if you set your ambient equalization system half way up your hull,
>> everything above that point would see internal pressure.
>>
>>   To visualize the pressure, imagine suspending your submarine upside down &
>> filling it half way with water. That water pressure
>>
>>   on the hatch would be the same as the air pressure on the hatch in an
>> ambient sub.
>>
>>   There is no opportunity to unlock the dome before you flood the sub as in a
>> 1atm.
>>
>>   Maybe a screw down type hatch closure would work. Perhaps an outlet valve
>> at the top of the hull to release the pressure to the
>>
>>   dome level, to reduce a bit of pressure on the hatch.
>>
>>   Any thoughts, comments?
>>
>>   Regards Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>   __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature database 6453 (20110910) __________
>>
>>   The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
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>>
>>
>>   __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature database 6453 (20110910) __________
>>
>>   The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
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>
> --
> Mailed on 11-Sep-2011.
>
>
>
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