Wil et all,
The trouble is that I think that we will be fighting a losing
battle. I think that we are similar to, but way behind, the aircraft
industry. We are in the “microlight division”. No need
for regulation but I think to defend it we are going to have to police it
ourselves long term. We should be aiming for a P-Subs license and
getting support from the Coastguard and Maritime services from various
countries. When I first started sCUBA in the 60’s we were all self
taught, made our own etc. I went to Europe and could not get a tank
filled without a ticket and came back home and first thing I did was get a
basic SCUBA ticket.
I think that we are headed that way. We can fight it or we
can show responsibility and get a “microlight sub”
classification. I believe that Yacht / boat builders can get a design
done and get their boats surveyed without having to have it done by Lloyds, ABS
etc. I think if we adopt that as an attitude and we can get new designs,
concepts etc whether the “f---“ word the “C—“
word or in conventional steel etc we might just get a viable game plan listened
to. I think this is a fairly good road for P-Subs to go down and develop
and has merit. Why have to follow the same rules and costs as a Ship or
airliner which is where the big rule boys come from. I think that
if we put together a set of rules and approached one of the approval bodies,
just one of them might see reason to reduce their costs for a lesser approval
and support us. If I were in charge of their marketing and new
business I would certainly sit up and listen.
My proposal would be to have a set of calcs that can be followed
or a minimum FEA programme that can be used for unusual shapes. Perhaps
if it is an unusual design then a couple of tests of models supported by a full
pressure test. If a registered engineer did the calcs or signed them off
we could get a rating like they rate countries A+, AA+, A-, BB
whatever. The emphasis needs to be on proving the design by
pressure test. If we set a 1.5 times test instead of the 1.25 and 1.3 with
an inspection afterwards supported by weld X-rays then shouldn’t that be recognized?
So what do you gurus think. We need to get it so it does not cost a
bundle but gets some recognition, and show that we are a responsible group.
The biggest concern is liability and I know that engineers are notorious
nowdays for diving for cover.
So am I gooing to get shouted down or have you older members
already shelved that idea?
Hugh
From:
owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Wilfried
Ellmer
Sent: Monday, 7 June 2010 4:48 p.m.
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] submarine kit-builder's society
Hello Jon,
I am absolutly not confused. I know that my projects are "outside
class" i have no problem with that as there are good and ethical reasons
for my project for being and staying outside class.
I have no need and no intention to be "class near", "almost
class", or any of the other fussy concepts i have heard about here.
Class by definition is something where you are in or out - you can not be
"half in" as you can not be "half pregnant" if you are not
stamped and certified (and willing to pay the price for the paper ) you are out
- just have the spine and live with it.
I would say that for the reasons Phil pointed out, the private sub builder
segment has a intrinsic need to be out of class, stay out of class, and defend
that space with the good arguments that exist to do so.
Wil
2010/6/6 Jon Wallace <jonw@psubs.org>
Hi Wil,
It sounds like you may be confused about what we are saying in regards to
certification authorities. To be clear, we do not propose that
home-builders should spend the thousands of dollars necessary to get a piece of
paper declaring a sub is "certified". We never have suggested
that or considered it a requirement. As Carsten stated in his email, we
say, get a copy of ABS, read it, understand it, build to it. If you do
so, the chances are pretty good that you have a safe and reliable submersible
on your hands.
Jon
Jon,
I do not really believe in your thesis that tecnology leadership comes from
"administration societies" and that they do a solid research and
development miles ahead of us. Even in our overadministrated times leadership
comes from motivated individuals who push the fronties it - administration
always follows.
I am not "anti standard" or "anti classification" i am
against the satanisation of the "outside class status" as
"unsafe", "unprofessional", "unreliable" etc...
The fact that currently there is a life outside classing agencies for private
subs is the "air supply" of our sport. To fill a a private submarine
builder forum with arguments to cut this air supply and regulate our sport out
of existance - is not a wise course of action...
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database
because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
from our organization.
If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
link below or send a blank email message to:
removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
our server receiving your request.
PSUBS.ORG
PO Box 53
Weare, NH 03281
603-529-1100
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5177 (20100606) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com