Jens Laland wrote:
> Is this forum meant to
be an exclusive "submarine kit-builder's
society"
>
No, however I don't
think Greg was insinuating that either, rather he was simply trying to
rally potential builders out there to "git kraken" as Frank would
say.
> Or, will there still be room for people taking
the time required to work
> on new design or technology, and who
needs a forum where they can present
> their work in a multitude
of forms; like figments, dreams, ideas,
> questions, proposals,
concepts, sketches, images, stories, discussions,
> mock-ups,
scale models, etc.?
>
New design
and technology discussions are fine as long as they are both practical
and discussed responsibly. Practical means in the context of
home-builders and responsible means having resources to back up
assertions and proposals, or demonstrating that you are following a
safe path towards your goal. Of utmost import is safety and it
must be applied diligently to all discussion including concepts,
proposals, design, fabrication and operation. This list is
public and we have a responsibility to be careful how we present "new"
concepts and "unproven" technology so that casual readers or
well-intentioned but undisciplined sub-builders don't take those
concepts as definitive alternatives to traditional materials or
procedures that are known to work reliably. Enforcing this
discipline upon ourselves strengthens us as a group and projects a
positive image to the public as well as government entities and our
industry partners.
Figments and dreams not based in practical
application to home builders, or that cannot be shown to be (or
include) safe practices, are not appropriate for this public list and
should be discussed in the "experimental" mailing list available to
members through your PSUBS accounts. The experimental mailing
list was created specifically to allow discussion of unproven ideas
and concepts, and to let those with minds who want to wander free, do
so.
I assume we have gotten here from the FRP discussion. I
know nothing about FRP or its viability for PVHO, however it seems to
be indisputable that FRP for such use is not mainstream.
However, the fact remains that research is being done on the material
for use as cylinders under external pressure as evidenced by the
experiments conducted by Carl Ross in the UK. The fact that ABS
has no certification available for FRP pressure hulls should not be
discarded so lightly. While it is possible that ABS is just
behind the times as has been suggested, it is also as equally possible
and plausible that they know a bit of something about the material in
terms of fabrication for PVHO and have valid reasons for not creating
standards for it.
At PSUBS we have adopted and promote the
philosophy that home-built subs should be built according to ABS
standards. The primary reason for doing so is to promote the
safe design, fabrication, and operation of small home-built submarines
based upon proven industry standards accepted by almost
everyone. This gives us credibility and projects us in a
positive light to both the public and those authorities for which
these things matter and whom have the ability to regulate us. It
also binds us to a common standard when the need arises to justify our
decision for a particular fabrication method or operational
procedure. Unfortunately, there are too many people in the world
who would want to "save us" from ourselves. Not adopting any
standard puts us on the defensive when challenged about the safety of
our vessels. Associating ourselves with industry standards such
as ABS gives us the upper-hand in any such confrontation.
Now
perhaps it may be more obvious why some people are challenging the use
of FRP for a submarine hull. The fact that ABS does not have
standards for FRP when used for a PVHO doesn't mean we shouldn't
discuss it, but it does mean we need to discuss it responsibly and
cautiously. I think Alan has been taking pains to do both when
discussing his plans for using FPR, including using a composite
engineer, talking about the expense and weight, and suggesting that he
will abandon the idea if it is either economically unfeasible or
otherwise impractical. Alan has not employed the typical topic
structure we've seen in the past where someone throws out an idea as
if it is fact and then defends it with something like "nothing is
impossible". It sounds like he is taking a measured approach and
doing some significant research into the feasibility of the material
for his specific design criteria. As long as it continues in
that manner I don't see a problem with having Alan update us on his
progress. Challenging new designs and materials is good medicine
for those embarking on projects that do not conform to ABS standards,
and in my opinion those designers need to "step up to the plate" and
accept it. As I have said before to others, don't take offense
to being challenged about your ideas or plans, especially by a group
that has a duty to further safe practices for an inherently dangerous
hobby. If you really believe in what you are doing, accept the
criticisms as a challenge to drive your project to complete success
and show us that you were
right.
Jon
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