Hi Vance,
I was hoping to keep the moister in the air long enough to go thru my gel capsules or other type of dehumidifier before it condenses on the walls of the sub. Then send the dry air in tubes to be blown on the conning tower acrylic cylinder, and the forward viewport. Like is done on some fighter planes I've seen. The whole drier and CO2 scrubber system will be in pressure proof pods so they can be sealed off with valves for wet exit training.
I was just looking at pictures of the interior of Snoopy and Persistence. In Snoopy other then a few pneumatic and electrical lines, and a few do dads, there really isn't much in the space between the support ribs. All those items could easily be
;brought in a bit, just like the valves. How ever in Persistence he's got three electrical panels recessed back into the rib voids.
The inner hull will all be hot dip galvanized, and then coated with a flexible coating like polyurea then the syntactic foam poured or infused in place in sections, then all that coated again with polyurea. So the steel should be very well protected.
I can easily deal with the little bit of added weight the syntactic foam will add above the axis of the main hull tube. Since I've changed the steel conning tower guard to schule 40 alumumin tubing as per your suggestion, which also hold more air then the inch sqare steel tubing did and the use of inflatable pontoons when at the surface.
Having a couple of towels in any case is a good idea for a number of things. I just was figuring on starting a camp fire in the sub sub between dives to dry it out Vance. ;} It was either that or saltines.
Regards,
Szybowski
To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] KL-250's Syntactic Foam Data
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 06:21:43 -0400
From:
vbra676539@aol.com
Brent,
Most condensation comes from passengers who will be exhaling moisture steadily whether you line the hull or not. All that wet has to go somewhere. Beyond that, you have stumped me. Why would you put specific use material designed for external applications inside the submarine? It is heavy, expensive and takes up space better put to other uses. It will trap moisture and almost certainly provide an ideal environment for hidden corrosion. If it is insulation you want, put on a jacket. If it is moisture that worries you, then build in a small dehumidifier (which you will not use, by the way) or buy a commercial unit to dry the boat out between dives. Take some shop rags or a towel in any case because foamed or not, you're going to be mopping up from time to time. It's part of the gig. Don't let it worry you.
Vance
-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Hartwig <
brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
To: PSUBSorg <
personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, Jul
10, 2009 4:05 am
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] KL-250's Syntactic Foam Data
Hi Al,
The short answer is I'm just that kind of special nut case.
Part of my answer you will see in my post to Brian.
One reason why I don't want to put the syntactic foam on the out side of this K-250 is that it would change it's look to much, and since it's an original Kittredge built sub I don't want to hide it.
I'm wanting to fill in all the void space between the support ribs to clean up the interior, and give the subs hull a large amount of additional strength.
Below is an article I found some time back that really opened my eyes.
===================================================
"Defense Technical Information Center
Accession Number : AD0605963
Title : SYNTACTIC-FOAM, FILAMENT-WOUND COMPOSITE PRESSURE HULLS.
Descriptive Note : Final rept.,
Corporate Author : GM DEFENSE RESEARCH LABS SANTA BARBARA CALIF
Personal Author(s) : Robertson,R. M.
=0
A
Report Date : SEP 1964
Pagination or Media Count : 73
Abstract : External hydrostatic pressure tests were conducted on 12 fiberglass filament-wound cylinders, each 12 in. long with an ID of 5 in. Six of these had a wall thickness of 0.210 in., designed to fail by buckling at 2000 psi; the other six had a wall thickness of 0.305 in., designed to fail by buckling at 5000 psi. Three of each type were covered with an external coating of INLYTE (a buoyant syntactic foam previously developed by the contractor in an effort to stabilize the G. R. P. against buckling. The syntactic foam density was 44 lb/cu. ft. The six uncoated cylinders were used as controls. Long cylinders of fiberglass exhibit collapse characteristics under external hydrostatic pressures. The compressive stresses are not developed to their full potential. The tests were conducted to determine if a coating of syntactic foam would stabilize the units to allow more efficient use of the compressive stress. Conclusions: By coating cylinders with a layer of low-density syntactic foam, such as INLYTE, the unit is stabilized in the buckling mode, and a great increase in strength is achieved before rupture from externally-applied hydrostatic pressure. Also, the buoyancy of the composite structure is significantly increased. (Author)
Descriptors : *SUBMARINE HULLS, COMPOSITE MATERIALS, PRESSURE VESSELS, HYDROSTATIC PRESSURE, UNDERWATER, EXPANDED PLASTICS, GLASS TEXTILES, PLASTIC COATINGS, RUPTURE, BUOYANCY, DENSITY, BUCKLING, EPOXY RESINS, CYLINDRICAL BODIES,
SPHERES, GLASS.
Distribution Statement : APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE
Search DTIC's Public STINET for similiar documents.
Members of the public may purchase hardcopy documents from the National Technical Information Service. "
Regards,
Szybowski
From:
wreckdiver@frontiernet.net
To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyurea Coatings for Submarines
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:14:07 -0400
Hi Brent,
Stupid question…why are you putting syntactic foam on the *INSIDE* of your sub????
Al Secor
I have two local friends, that spray polyurea coatings commercially. One sprays in on there steel dock weldments and other items. The brand they use is TurboLiner. At the moment I plan to have them spray the interior of my sub after all the syntactic foam is cured.
Regards,
Szybowski
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