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RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Important PSUBS Info - Please Read



Jon,
 
  I support any changes you feel are needed, but...
 
  I wonder if I would have discovered that no passive hydrophones were cheaply available if these changes you suggest were then in place.
 
  Change happens and we must adapt. I will most likely pursue an ambient submarine first as this is closer to my present budget, but as was mentioned, I too like all things submarines, and will perhaps someday go 1atm.
 
  On this site, I have had the pleasure of rubbing elbows with some of the most experienced and brainy people I have never talked to face to face. (and you too Joe!) The discussions do get a bit heated at times but that is all just part of the fun.
 
  A wise CPO once told me while qualifying on submarines the the only dumb question about how a submarine was supposed to work was the one that was never asked. I have enjoyed the open forum we now enjoy. If funding is the primary motivation for this change, I will gladly donate and do my share. Please do not restrict this site as to its creativity the free sharing of information generates. I follow Dans road of thinking...but where you lead, I will follow.
 
                                                                                                                                 David Bartsch

> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:10:57 -0500
> From: jon@psubs.org
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Important PSUBS Info - Please Read
>
> Hello,
>
> At the August 2008 PSUBS Convention, the subject of membership was
> raised and a consensus of attendees indicated that they were in favor of
> creating a PSUBS membership program with certain features and benefits
> targeted only to the membership. Of primary interest were targeted
> mailing lists for specific discussions, active monitoring and moderating
> of topics, a stated commitment to safety, and discounts from industry
> partners that might be available to us.
>
> Although not yet complete, we are ready to accommodate any "early birds"
> who wish to start their membership at this time with limited benefits.
> Available immediately are six targeted mailing lists for members-only,
> and members may suggest others that may be appropriate:
>
> 1) "MEMBER-FORUM" for general topics and discussions
> 2) "1ATM" for discussions specific to 1ATM submersibles
> 3) "AMBIENT" for discussions specific to ambient submersibles
> 4) "EXPERIMENTAL" for non-traditional submersible design/construction topics
> 5) "ROV" for discussions specific to ROV and AUV vehicles.
> 6) "SAFETY" for topics specific to safety, standards, and guidelines
>
> As a condition of PSUBS membership, you must indicate that you have read
> and accept the "PSUBS Membership Agreement" which is available at
> http://www.psubs.org/membership/PSUBSMembershipAgreement.pdf This is
> an important legal document in which you give up certain legal rights,
> so please read it carefully.
>
> You can pay for membership online via PayPal or send us a check or money
> order. All instructions are at http://www.psubs.org/membership
>
> Details of "planned" membership features are listed at
> http://www.psubs.org/membership and include:
> - Official membership card with unique ID number
> - Official PSUBS Lapel Pin and Bumper Sticker
> - Access to member-only discussion lists
> - Member BIO page and web-publishing your project photos
> - Discounts on PSUBS sponsored conventions and meetings
> - Discounts on products from our industry partners
> - Discounts on various items from the PSUBS online store
>
> At the 2008 convention, it was specifically requested that a PSUBS
> coffee cup be distributed with every paid membership. Unfortunately, it
> turns out that custom logo coffee cups are relatively expensive. The
> cheapest price I could find was $10 (not including shipping). Although
> the price goes down when buying bulk, it isn't reduced all that much
> (about $8 each I think). Since we have no way of knowing how many
> people are actually interested in becoming a member, purchasing 100
> coffee cups in bulk just won't work since we don't have $800 to spend on
> a bulk order. I even looked into purchasing our own thermal transfer
> printer for coffee cups, but they are quite expensive as well, at
> between $600 and $1200 (not including coffee cup blanks) which we also
> cannot afford. Therefore, we have settled upon providing a PSUBS lapel
> pin and bumper sticker free with your paid membership. For those that
> still want a coffee mug, clock, or something else, we will set up an
> account with cafe express or similar provider and let you order your own
> item at whatever the actual cost is.
>
> I expect numerous questions regarding membership. I have anticipated
> some below. Please try to ask any other questions on this discussion
> list so that everyone else can view the answer. If you have a question
> you want to ask privately, reply to my psubs email address and I will
> address your concerns.
>
> QUESTIONS / ANSWERS
>
> Q) What is the cost of PSUBS membership?
>
> A) $35.00 per year
>
>
> Q) What do I get with my membership?
>
> A) Tangible items include a membership card, lapel pin, and bumper
> sticker. In terms of services you receive, access to members-only
> discussion forums, discounts for various products and services as we
> negotiate them, discounts from the PSUBS online store, and anything else
> that we add. Got a suggestion for something else you want? Let me know
> and we'll try it.
>
>
> Q) When will *all* the membership features be available?
>
> A) We are working diligently to finish up the BIO and Project Area
> features. However, work on such is done part-time (usually evenings)
> after our "day" jobs are complete and time permits. I cannot provide a
> specific date of completion, but our target is now June 2009.
>
>
> Q) Is PSUBS.ORG only going to be available to members now?
>
> A) No, the vast majority of the website will remain public. However,
> expect some features to become members-only, such as providing web-space
> for project areas.
>
>
> Q) What happens to the publicly available mailing list
> (personal_submersibles@psubs.org) ?
>
> A) Nothing, except possibly a change to the name of the forum. This
> mailing list will remain in place and non-members will still have access
> to it. It's possible that the name may change to "questions" or
> "public-forum", but that has not been decided at this point. In any
> event, unless you remove yourself from this list, you will continue to
> receive mail from it and be able to participate in discussions
> associated with it. Furthermore, we expect that members will continue
> to monitor and participate in this list so that they can share their
> expertise with the general public as appropriate. One of the things we
> need to do, is to make sure our members with advanced knowledge help
> spread accurate information when questions from newcomers are sent to
> the public email forum. In general, "psubbers" should always attempt to
> help newcomers come up to speed. We all started with no knowledge and
> we all benefit when knowledge is delivered to others. However, we also
> expect that the bulk of advanced topics will occur within member-only
> forums because of the more targeted environment it provides. If the
> membership program is successful, you should expect that the public
> mailing list will become an entry point for general questions by
> newcomers. Newcomers are certainly welcome to hold detailed
> discussions, but we anticipate that most of the "expertise" for advanced
> topics will occur within member-only forums.
>
>
> Q) You say things will mostly stay the same. Yeah, maybe now, but what
> about the future?
>
> A) We have always had a commitment to sharing knowledge, not hoarding
> it. Especially when it comes to issues regarding safety and helping
> newcomers "learn the ropes". Ray and I share the same desire, to make
> as much information available to the public as possible. This has been
> the goal of PSUBS from day one, and we are not likely to change our
> philosophy after all this time.
>
>
> Q) What about existing photos and project space on the website?
>
> A) We still need to finish up the "photo" section that use to exist and
> is now under reconstruction. Anyone is welcome to submit a photo of
> their submersible and have it published on the web site, and all photos
> we currently have will eventually be published again. This is just a
> matter of time. Relative to project space, the current plan is that
> eventually only members will be able to obtain such project space on
> PSUBS.ORG and have photo-journals that document their work. Non-members
> will still be able to view member projects, but non-members who want to
> display their own projects will need to secure free web space with other
> providers such as frapper.
>
>
> Q) What about video?
>
> A) No changes here. We do not have the resources or bandwidth to feed
> video from PSUBS.ORG. Our video policy for everyone is the same. Find
> a provider where you can upload your video for free (youtube.com for
> example) and then send us a link to it. We will gladly publish a link
> to your submersible video whether you are a member or not.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
> PSUBS.ORG
> PO Box 53
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> 603-529-1100
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