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Jon, I support any changes you feel are needed, but... I wonder if I would have discovered that no passive hydrophones were cheaply available if these changes you suggest were then in place. Change happens and we must adapt. I will most likely pursue an ambient submarine first as this is closer to my present budget, but as was mentioned, I too like all things submarines, and will perhaps someday go 1atm. On this site, I have had the pleasure of rubbing elbows with some of the most experienced and brainy people I have never talked to face to face. (and you too Joe!) The discussions do get a bit heated at times but that is all just part of the fun. A wise CPO once told me while qualifying on submarines the the only dumb question about how a submarine was supposed to work was the one that was never asked. I have enjoyed the open forum we now enjoy. If funding is the primary motivation for this change, I will gladly donate and do my share. Please do not restrict this site as to its creativity the free sharing of information generates. I follow Dans road of thinking...but where you lead, I will follow. David Bartsch > Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:10:57 -0500 > From: jon@psubs.org > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Important PSUBS Info - Please Read > > Hello, > > At the August 2008 PSUBS Convention, the subject of membership was > raised and a consensus of attendees indicated that they were in favor of > creating a PSUBS membership program with certain features and benefits > targeted only to the membership. Of primary interest were targeted > mailing lists for specific discussions, active monitoring and moderating > of topics, a stated commitment to safety, and discounts from industry > partners that might be available to us. > > Although not yet complete, we are ready to accommodate any "early birds" > who wish to start their membership at this time with limited benefits. > Available immediately are six targeted mailing lists for members-only, > and members may suggest others that may be appropriate: > > 1) "MEMBER-FORUM" for general topics and discussions > 2) "1ATM" for discussions specific to 1ATM submersibles > 3) "AMBIENT" for discussions specific to ambient submersibles > 4) "EXPERIMENTAL" for non-traditional submersible design/construction topics > 5) "ROV" for discussions specific to ROV and AUV vehicles. > 6) "SAFETY" for topics specific to safety, standards, and guidelines > > As a condition of PSUBS membership, you must indicate that you have read > and accept the "PSUBS Membership Agreement" which is available at > http://www.psubs.org/membership/PSUBSMembershipAgreement.pdf This is > an important legal document in which you give up certain legal rights, > so please read it carefully. > > You can pay for membership online via PayPal or send us a check or money > order. All instructions are at http://www.psubs.org/membership > > Details of "planned" membership features are listed at > http://www.psubs.org/membership and include: > - Official membership card with unique ID number > - Official PSUBS Lapel Pin and Bumper Sticker > - Access to member-only discussion lists > - Member BIO page and web-publishing your project photos > - Discounts on PSUBS sponsored conventions and meetings > - Discounts on products from our industry partners > - Discounts on various items from the PSUBS online store > > At the 2008 convention, it was specifically requested that a PSUBS > coffee cup be distributed with every paid membership. Unfortunately, it > turns out that custom logo coffee cups are relatively expensive. The > cheapest price I could find was $10 (not including shipping). Although > the price goes down when buying bulk, it isn't reduced all that much > (about $8 each I think). Since we have no way of knowing how many > people are actually interested in becoming a member, purchasing 100 > coffee cups in bulk just won't work since we don't have $800 to spend on > a bulk order. I even looked into purchasing our own thermal transfer > printer for coffee cups, but they are quite expensive as well, at > between $600 and $1200 (not including coffee cup blanks) which we also > cannot afford. Therefore, we have settled upon providing a PSUBS lapel > pin and bumper sticker free with your paid membership. For those that > still want a coffee mug, clock, or something else, we will set up an > account with cafe express or similar provider and let you order your own > item at whatever the actual cost is. > > I expect numerous questions regarding membership. I have anticipated > some below. Please try to ask any other questions on this discussion > list so that everyone else can view the answer. If you have a question > you want to ask privately, reply to my psubs email address and I will > address your concerns. > > QUESTIONS / ANSWERS > > Q) What is the cost of PSUBS membership? > > A) $35.00 per year > > > Q) What do I get with my membership? > > A) Tangible items include a membership card, lapel pin, and bumper > sticker. In terms of services you receive, access to members-only > discussion forums, discounts for various products and services as we > negotiate them, discounts from the PSUBS online store, and anything else > that we add. Got a suggestion for something else you want? Let me know > and we'll try it. > > > Q) When will *all* the membership features be available? > > A) We are working diligently to finish up the BIO and Project Area > features. However, work on such is done part-time (usually evenings) > after our "day" jobs are complete and time permits. I cannot provide a > specific date of completion, but our target is now June 2009. > > > Q) Is PSUBS.ORG only going to be available to members now? > > A) No, the vast majority of the website will remain public. However, > expect some features to become members-only, such as providing web-space > for project areas. > > > Q) What happens to the publicly available mailing list > (personal_submersibles@psubs.org) ? > > A) Nothing, except possibly a change to the name of the forum. This > mailing list will remain in place and non-members will still have access > to it. It's possible that the name may change to "questions" or > "public-forum", but that has not been decided at this point. In any > event, unless you remove yourself from this list, you will continue to > receive mail from it and be able to participate in discussions > associated with it. Furthermore, we expect that members will continue > to monitor and participate in this list so that they can share their > expertise with the general public as appropriate. One of the things we > need to do, is to make sure our members with advanced knowledge help > spread accurate information when questions from newcomers are sent to > the public email forum. In general, "psubbers" should always attempt to > help newcomers come up to speed. We all started with no knowledge and > we all benefit when knowledge is delivered to others. However, we also > expect that the bulk of advanced topics will occur within member-only > forums because of the more targeted environment it provides. If the > membership program is successful, you should expect that the public > mailing list will become an entry point for general questions by > newcomers. Newcomers are certainly welcome to hold detailed > discussions, but we anticipate that most of the "expertise" for advanced > topics will occur within member-only forums. > > > Q) You say things will mostly stay the same. Yeah, maybe now, but what > about the future? > > A) We have always had a commitment to sharing knowledge, not hoarding > it. Especially when it comes to issues regarding safety and helping > newcomers "learn the ropes". Ray and I share the same desire, to make > as much information available to the public as possible. This has been > the goal of PSUBS from day one, and we are not likely to change our > philosophy after all this time. > > > Q) What about existing photos and project space on the website? > > A) We still need to finish up the "photo" section that use to exist and > is now under reconstruction. Anyone is welcome to submit a photo of > their submersible and have it published on the web site, and all photos > we currently have will eventually be published again. This is just a > matter of time. Relative to project space, the current plan is that > eventually only members will be able to obtain such project space on > PSUBS.ORG and have photo-journals that document their work. Non-members > will still be able to view member projects, but non-members who want to > display their own projects will need to secure free web space with other > providers such as frapper. > > > Q) What about video? > > A) No changes here. We do not have the resources or bandwidth to feed > video from PSUBS.ORG. Our video policy for everyone is the same. Find > a provider where you can upload your video for free (youtube.com for > example) and then send us a link to it. We will gladly publish a link > to your submersible video whether you are a member or not. > > > > > > > ************************************************************************ > ************************************************************************ > ************************************************************************ > The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal > CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database > because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages > from our organization. > > If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the > link below or send a blank email message to: > removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org > > Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an > automated process and should be complete within five minutes of > our server receiving your request. > > PSUBS.ORG > PO Box 53 > Weare, NH 03281 > 603-529-1100 > ************************************************************************ > ************************************************************************ > ************************************************************************ > Hotmail® goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. See how. |