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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hawkes Presentation.

To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hawkes Presentation.
From: irox <irox@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:16:33 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
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Reply-to: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sender: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Hi Jim,

no firm date for delivery yet.  I'm hoping soon!  I think
an early 2009 delivery date is realistic, a late 2008 delivery
date would be fantastic.

Cheers,
  Ian.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Kocourek <kocpnt@tds.net>
>Sent: Nov 8, 2008 2:57 PM
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hawkes Presentation.
>
>Hi Ian,
>
>I agree with many points! It's good to hear from you.
>
>How is your project coming. Do you have a delivery date scheduled yet?
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Jim K
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "irox" <irox@ix.netcom.com>
>To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
>Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:39 PM
>Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hawkes Presentation.
>
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> the TED talks a should be taken with a pinch of salt, they seem to be
>> aimed at getting "elite" scientists to say radical things, which are
>> often quite offensive attacks against established reasoning in that
>> field.  The Butan talk on space exploration does little but attack NASA
>> and it's record on space exploration (although many of his points seems
>> pretty reasonable).  I guess this is part of trying to create
>> "refreshingly new radical" points of view.  I get the feeling you're
>> not allowed to talk at TED unless you're going tell everybody they are
>> doing it wrong and you are right....
>>
>> He gives me the impression he doesn't know much about fish, dissing
>> ballast tanks and implying we should copy sea creatures for making
>> submarines.  Yet many fish have bladders which work just like ballast
>> tanks.
>>
>> We could continue his line of reasoning and point it at his modern
>> designs.   Fish are not positively buoyant all the time and do not
>> need to keep moving to maintain depth, so is this design flaw in
>> his submarine.  Fish don't have square edges, don't look like F16s, and
>> no sea creatures I've seen have propellers, are these design flaws as
>> well?
>>
>> Maybe he would be interested in building sub based on some of the
>> work of Viktor Schauberger ("biological submarine").  This would be
>> pretty radical, if it worked.
>>
>> The down side is people who don't know much about submarines picking
>> up this line of reasoning and thinking it should apply to all subs...
>> Pretty the 'E' in TED seems to stand for elitist and not education...
>>
>> Cheers!
>>  Ian.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: jonw@psubs.org
>>>Sent: Nov 7, 2008 11:11 AM
>>>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>>Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hawkes Presentation.
>>>
>>>
>>>Sorry to hear about your work situation, James.  I've had experience with
>>>the same and so have lots of others.  You'll come through ok.
>>>
>>>I had a somewhat similar reaction but it surrounded the footage of the 
>>>Manta
>>>Ray when he was calling it a "lady".  Obviously he was deeply moved by the
>>>experience (which I can understand), but I lose interest when experts 
>>>start
>>>moving out of the realm of scientific realism and relate things from a
>>>romantical perspective.  He did sort of put himself above everyone else in
>>>the audience, but I think alot of that is due to his passion for what he
>>>does.  When he was describing the encounter with the manta-ray, I found
>>>myself saying, "It's an animal you idiot, not a lady".  It doesn't feel
>>>emotions like you do.  It doesn't "think" like you do.  It's not aware of
>>>what it looks like.  It's not aware of any world other than the 50 feet it
>>>can see in front of it.  It's only purpose is to eat and procreate.
>>>
>>>Years ago I went to see Roger Payne, the biologist big into whale "songs",
>>>who was giving a presentation on his work at a nearby college.  Prior to
>>>attending, I was an admirer of his and extremely interested in his work.
>>>During his speech however, I felt he went way beyond science and began
>>>describing his work in romantical terms like "exuberant, uninterrupted
>>>rivers of sound" with "themes" and intelligent meaning behind them.  The
>>>evidence he provided in recordings however, hardly met the standard that 
>>>he
>>>was expousing in his romantical terms.  I left the presentation convinced 
>>>he
>>>was an environmental whacko and never looked back.  Whales communicating
>>>somehow?  Sure, I can go for that.  Whales singing to each other soothing
>>>songs to make them all feel warm and comfy in the ocean?  Come on, don't
>>>waste my time with such nonsense.
>>>
>>>Getting back to Hawkes, I had a similar feeling to yours with the 
>>>"rockets"
>>>statement.  From a romantic view the statement makes a lot of sense.  But
>>>from a practical view, it's absolute rubbish.  More than one "expert" has
>>>become so enamoured with their own work that they lose sight of science 
>>>and
>>>practicality.  I think they just look foolish doing it.
>>>
>>>Jon
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>>[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]On Behalf Of James
>>>Frankland
>>>Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 9:44 AM
>>>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>>Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hawkes Presentation.
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi Jon
>>>Only that he seemed very critical of "traditional" subs and people in
>>>general.
>>>I know he's an engineering genius and has spent a lifetime producing
>>>fantastic machines, but i was a little offended by his attitude.
>>>Particually at the "your rockets are pointing in the wrong direction"
>>>comment.
>>>
>>>Like i said, it just depends on your opinion and i realise someone with 
>>>his
>>>experience is in a position to voice his.
>>>
>>>I've just been told we are to be made redundant from work, so im probably
>>>just in a bad mood!
>>>
>>>Regards
>>>James
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: jonw@psubs.org [mailto:jonw@psubs.org]
>>>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>>Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:12:05 -0500
>>>Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hawkes Presentation.
>>>
>>>
>>>Interesting, I was searching for something unrelated on the internet
>>>yesterday and that video popped up as a link so I followed it and viewed 
>>>it
>>>a couple of times.  I don't think I had a rise in blood pressure though, 
>>>so
>>>I'm curious if I missed something.  Can you expand on your comment a bit?
>>>
>>>Jon
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>>[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]On Behalf Of James
>>>Frankland
>>>Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 9:01 AM
>>>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hawkes Presentation.
>>>
>>>
>>>this could raise your blood pressure, depending on your point of view....
>>>
>>>http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/graham_hawkes_flies_through_the_ocean.htm
>>>l
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
>
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