R/Jay I understand this problem. And my thoughts are only and extreme
eminent collision would this
be deployed to avoid or lesson the impact of a collision. If ever
deployed
surfacing is required.
my prop will be shrouded and foul proofed rudder.
The one scenario I can think of that would not be a good idea to deploy
would be running into a
fish net. Sure do not need any thing else getting tied up. But for the
boulder that will jump up
and smack me, I do think this is a viable solution.
Dean
In a message dated 8/26/2008 11:30:56 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
bottomgun@mindspring.com writes:
Dean,
You have to be concerned with the chute fouling your
propulsion/steering
motors. A big sub could just shred the drogue while you could lose
propulsion
just when you need it most. Remember that the Navy decided that
drogues and
speed brakes were a bad idea after much testing and stuck with
operating
within the envelope.
R/Jay
Respectfully,
Jay K. Jeffries
Andros Is., Bahamas
Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.
- Euripides (484 BC - 406 BC)
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of
Recon1st@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:51 AM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stopping Flaps
I did not know these were tried on military subs. I just thought it was
a
good idea to be able
to stop quicker.
I do think for my purposes just the sea anchor blown out of it's
housing
would be best for
my needs. Seems like the manual brake flaps would be quite complicated
and
slower than
I would like.
Dean
In a message dated 8/25/2008 7:43:51 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
brenthartwig@hotmail.com writes:
Dean,
I found a couple more items. I'm having trouble finding a picture of
the
flaps open. I had one a while back.
http://imageevent.com/albacore/albacorehistoricphotos;jsessionid=r9qabaad11.ti
ger_s?n=25&z=2&w=0&x=0&c=4&m=24&p=24
"The parachutes were attached to the after end of Albacore's fairwater
and successfully streamed while the ship was cruising submerged. The
resulting
deceleration curves indicated that such a system effectively aided in
emergency recovery."
Project "Bailout" might not have been the most successful of Albacore's
tests but it certainly showed some creativity was at work."
http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/albacore.htm
Regards,
Brent Hartwig
____________________________________
From: brenthartwig@hotmail.com
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stopping Flaps
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:03:24 -0700
Dean,
You could install some sort of stopping flaps (speed brakes) on both
sides
of your sub that are curved to fit the shape of your hull. Much like a
US Navy
test sub USS Albacore. Then operate them with hydraulics or adapted
electric
actuators starting with a unit like the Lenco Trim Tab actuators.
I've been planning on having this type or braking system on my winged
underwater gliding subs. With two stopping flaps on the training edge
of the wings.
One opening up, and one down at the same time.
"Built as a test bed for the U.S. Navy, the Albacore featured a
tear-drop shaped hull, new diving controls, a dorsal rudder and a new
high-yield steel for her pressure hull. In addition, the Navy, at one
time
or another, experimented with speed brakes, contra-rotating screws, a
drag chute, camouflage paint and three different arrangements of stern
control surfaces.
The NSF report ignited debate within Navy circles over a variety of
issues such as the merits of twin propellers vs. singles, and the
sacrifice
of surface stability for undersea speed. The result of the
recommendations
and ensuing debate was the U.S.S. Albacore.
The Dorsal rudder was reinstalled and enlarged and the boat
was outfitted with speed brakes. These brakes - another concept
borrowed
from aviation - technology, consisted of 10 hinged panels ringing the
after part of the ship. When needed, they were hydraulically opened
into
the waterflow, bringing the boat to a rapid stop."
http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/albacore.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Albacore_(AGSS-569)
Regards,
Brent Hartwig
____________________________________
From: Recon1st@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:55:44 -0400
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air Tanks
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Frank I am using 12hp for my main propulsion. I gave up trying to
calculate
speed but I should have
plenty. The reason for so much maneuverability is the bottom of Lake
Superior many granite boulders
etc. I will need to travel pretty fast to cover any amount of the Lake.
I am
thinking of a 20 to 30' above the
bottom but at 6 knots or so when one of those big beast jumps up in
front of
me, I am going to need
options. A transfer pump or sliding weight for sure would not fit my
needs.
I may even have an
emergency sea anchor deployment for quick stops. Reverting back to my
drag
racing days.
I loved the dry dive video. I learned much watching it maneuver I have
greater confidence that my
efforts should yield the kind of performance I am looking for. Not to
mention it oughta be a real
hoot to drive hehehhe
Dean
In a message dated 8/24/2008 8:15:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
ShellyDalg@aol.com writes:
Hi Dean. I think you're chasing the right idea with front and back dive
planes. I had considered that but let it go because of the extra work.
It just
seems to me that back dive planes would be a real plus if you have
enough
power to make them work. Did you see the "dry dive" videos? With the
center
mounted dive planes the sub stays level when ascending/diving but it
would be nice
to be able to angle the sub just with the dive planes. Like you say,
much
like flying. I don't know how much speed you'd have to get to make the
dive
planes overcome the front/back balance, but if it's close enough to
neutral, it
may not take that much power.
Twin trim tanks front and back with a transfer pump would help if the
pump
was able to shift weight fast enough. Maybe a sliding drop weight would
be
less trouble to make. I will be able to shift the seat forward and
backward a
little and I'm hoping that will give me a little angle change. Damn, I
wanna
get this thing wet soon! Frank D.
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