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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nautilus pictures/large subs

To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nautilus pictures/large subs
From: irox <irox@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 02:17:00 -0400 (EDT)
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Reply-to: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sender: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Hi Jim,

definitely invited.  Talking to you about your work on concrete
floors was very educational for a soon to be concrete submarine
owner!

And, oh yeah, I definitely remember - and don't forget the Scotch.
Actually, turns out the Jazz bar block away had a better Scotch
selection. ;)

Cheers,
  Ian.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Kocourek <kocpnt@tds.net>
>Sent: Aug 25, 2008 10:56 PM
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nautilus pictures/large subs
>
>Hi Ian,
>
>So am I still invited or not!!!!
>
>I sure hope so!!
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Jim K - Beer drinker from Wisconsin - In case you don't remember!!
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "irox" <irox@ix.netcom.com>
>To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
>Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 1:43 PM
>Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nautilus pictures/large subs
>
>
>>
>> Cool, I'm getting a strong message, bigs subs are acceptable psubs! 
>> Thanks guys.
>> I will think no more of the issue and get on with what we love, talking 
>> about submarines!
>>
>> Cheers,
>>  Ian.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Stephen Pearce <sjpearceqld@bigpond.com>
>>>Sent: Aug 24, 2008 4:14 PM
>>>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>>Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nautilus pictures/large subs
>>>
>>>Jon
>>>
>>>If you read Ian's post in the context in which he made, his comments refer
>>>to 'certain Members' attitudes not the Founders attitudes. This makes your
>>>defence of PSUBS as an organisation unnecessary.
>>>
>>>In Ian's defence and in relation to some of the attitudes a few list 
>>>members
>>>have expressed towards big subs you have 'missed it'. Given the time, I
>>>could cut and paste pages of posts with negative or condescending 
>>>reactions
>>>to a proposed large sub or to a vessel under construction. Interestingly 
>>>one
>>>list member now investigating a potential hull for a large p-sub was the
>>>leader of the pack sighting everything from problems with the depth of the
>>>average harbour entrance to cost and maintenance factors associated with
>>>larger boats. It's nice to see RJ has enjoyed an epiphany the road to
>>>Damascus. :-)
>>>
>>>From the opposite point of view there are many list members that have been
>>>excited and enthused by the emergence of the bigger subs and have 
>>>responded
>>>positively.
>>>
>>>As to my comment about the 'K Cult' it was after all tongue in cheek just
>>>like my comment about Brent's biblical hair style and in fairness 
>>>suggested
>>>that a K boat was an accessible and affordable proven design with readily
>>>available plans. It would be also fair to suggest that the convention
>>>attendees in general and the longer term members would consist of a high
>>>number of K boat devotees. I also note Psubs sell the plans. Although I
>>>don't know a lot about him, I believe Kittredge and his boats were one of
>>>the founding platforms associated with the inception of P-subs. Further, 
>>>my
>>>understanding is that the last convention was held in a location close to
>>>his home and with his birthday in mind. Nothing wrong with that and as you
>>>yourself stated to me in an email off list the organisation has to be
>>>relevant to this core group some of which are experts in various ways.
>>>
>>>In every respect these members will find big subs don't represent their 
>>>core
>>>values and may not be of interest. Fair enough! My valid comment about a
>>>mute response was really expressing my disappointment that someone like
>>>Peter who has given up so much that most of us value, to achieve his goal,
>>>should receive such a mute response. People like Peter and Carsten are our
>>>Champions and should be celebrated just as much as Kittredge.  I dear say 
>>>if
>>>it was RJ or another core conventionist launching a big sub the praise 
>>>would
>>>be lavish in comparison.
>>>
>>>This is just an opinion but in a nut shell Jon, it is a shame more list
>>>members don't have the attitude you have demonstrated with respect to 
>>>these
>>>sub champions!
>>>
>>>Respectfully
>>>
>>>Steve Pearce
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>>[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of jonw@psubs.org
>>>Sent: Monday, 25 August 2008 4:15 AM
>>>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>>Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nautilus pictures/large subs
>>>
>>>Ian,
>>>
>>>If there's been a negative reaction to the discussion of large home-made
>>>submersibles, I guess I've missed it.  From the perspective of PSUBS the
>>>organization, I don't believe we have treated large subs any different 
>>>than
>>>small subs and I'm not aware of any large-sub projects that have been
>>>restricted from using any of PSUBS resources.  In terms of recognition, 
>>>both
>>>large sub projects that I'm aware of have received PSUBS awards.  Carsten
>>>Standfuss received a Kittredge Award for Euronaut, and Peter Madsen 
>>>received
>>>a Kittredge Award for Kraka.  When Ray asks for 2008 nominations in
>>>December, there is nothing to stop Steve, Ian, or anyone else from
>>>nominating Peter Madsen for another award to recognize NAUTILUS.  We have 
>>>a
>>>link to Carsten's Euronaut website at
>>>http://www.psubs.org/projects/standfuss.  On August 18, at 11:14am, I
>>>received private email from Peter Madsen asking if I would put photos of 
>>>the
>>>FREYA scuttling and video of NAUTILUS on PSUBS.  That work was complete
>>>within 12 hours, the last edits being finished at 11:44pm.  I don't recall
>>>if I announced it that night or waited  until the next morning, but I know 
>>>I
>>>sent an email out to the mailing list to make you all aware of it.  The
>>>video is at http://www.psubs.org/video and the photos are at
>>>http://www.psubs.org/photos/madsen
>>>
>>>The announcement of Nautilus being put in water was made in May 2008 and 
>>>it
>>>looks to me like it got as much positive response from the mailing list as
>>>any other announcement.  Regarding Peter's statement on 8/22 encouraging
>>>others not to be afraid of building big, what did you and Steve expect the
>>>reaction to be?  Surely you didn't expect that everyone would stop what 
>>>they
>>>were doing and retool to double or triple the size of their projects.  I
>>>didn't react to Peter's email for the same reason that Jim cited, in that 
>>>it
>>>simply isn't realistic for me to think of building something the size of
>>>Nautilus or Euronaut.  Peter says the workload is far from proportional 
>>>with
>>>the size.  Ok, fair enough, but workload is only one element of the 
>>>project
>>>that has to be assessed.  Time, money, facilities, equipment, and storage
>>>location are all issues that are very proportional to the size of the
>>>project.  Building subs the size of Nautilus and Euronaut require 
>>>resources
>>>which are unattainable I suspect by the vast majority of people who 
>>>frequent
>>>this list.  I thought that was obvious and therefore not necessary to 
>>>expand
>>>upon in a follow up to Peters email.
>>>
>>>
>>>Jon
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>>[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]On Behalf Of irox
>>>Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 6:25 PM
>>>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>>Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nautilus pictures/large subs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>This is great vessel.  Many thanks to Peter for sharing his findings,
>>>experiences, pictures and videos.
>>>
>>>Peter, the information you just shared is *very* valuable to me - thanks!
>>>Hopefully, I can buy you a drink sometime. ;)
>>>
>>>As for the mute response, I've observed a fairly negative reaction
>>>to the discussion for large home made submarines on the list.  At
>>>some point somebody seems to have defined a psubs as only having one
>>>or two occupants and can be towed behind a pickup truck, anything
>>>else is not acceptable.  This is certainly why I'm hesitant to
>>>discuss large subs on this list.
>>>
>>>Sometimes I think maybe we should start another list where it's ok
>>>to discuss large submarine issues.  But I see psubs is quietly
>>>changing, and new generation of psubs is being built and launched,
>>>most of them can house the annual psubs convention.
>>>
>>>Stephen, you are also building a large sub?  I'd love to hear
>>>about it.
>>>
>>>Cheers!
>>>  Ian.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
>
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>The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
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