Hello Jay,
The modern PSUB version of the Biber or Seehund sub I was thinking of, would have very different equipment inside, making it only look much like the Biber on the outside. This would of course mean that it's weights and moments calcs would be very different. It's freeboard height wouldn't need to be the same and it's exhaust and air intake systems could be configured a number of different ways. All sorts of changes to the internal supports to the pressure hull could be made as a modern safety upgrade.
An all electric version could also be devised.
Regards,
Brent Hartwig
From: bottomgun@mindspring.com
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Restoring a Biber (or Beaver) midget submarine
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 05:58:35 -0400
Brent,
If you read the operational reports on Biber ops you will find that extend trips by the submersibles were very trying on the crew if not deadly. The submersible usually operated awash, engine fumes often overcame the crew, amphetamines were required for the crew (1 and 2 day ops), dive control was spotty, VERY cramped for space, etc. Very few if any successful attacks were accomplished, in most cases the sub just disappeared…they were death traps.
R/Jay
Respectfully,
Jay K. Jeffries
Andros Is., Bahamas
Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.
- Euripides (484 BC - 406 BC)
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brent Hartwig
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 3:15 AM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Restoring a Biber (or Beaver) midget submarine
You gave me an idea Ray. Say some one wanted to make a practical modern PSUB replica of the Biber subs. The large torpedoes could be battery pods with a large thruster in the end of end one. This along with the diesel motor in the rear of the main pressure hull, would give the craft great range. The elongated conning tower is a tricky one. I see advantages in having the extra space, but if not designed properly, it could be problematic. The RV Needlefish's conning tower configuration always worried me, not having stiffeners along it's length and/or between the pilot and passenger, as well as having the conning tower saddled over the main pressure hull.
http://web.archive.org/web/20051030124733/giffordmarineinc.com/sub/Sub_1_15_02/Image5.jpg
http://web.archive.org/web/20060221073206/www.giffordmarineinc.com/sub/Sub_1_15_02/sub_1_15_01.htm
With Biber's conning tower being flanged out and then riveted on, that could perhaps be hard to replicate exactly for some of us. But if your not looking for an exact replica, I'm sure this group could figure out a strong modern alternative. Right off the bat, I think of welding on a saddle support like is on the older K-250's like mine and adding ornamental rivets. Then of course add the same two longitudinal external flanges to the conning tower to support it's length, as was done on the originals. We also have the added advantage of using modern steels, like A516 Gr 70. Then the elongated vertical portion of the conning tower could be installed like the K-250's and K-350's with the vertical portion protruding down into the main pressure hull.
Also the main pressure hull skin, could be thicker in the conning tower section.
Didn't the Biber's have a VBT? How was the gas stored?
Regards,
Brent Hartwig
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:05:13 -0700
From: psubs2001@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Restoring a Biber (or Beaver) midget submarine
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
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Hi Brent,
The Biber always seemed to be a practicle size and layout for a really handy psub. Just add a VBT and change the engine from petrol (gasoline) to diesel.
We have a few of pictures on the PSUBS web site about the German Biber (Beaver) at the Royal Navy Submarine Museum at Gosport, England. The article mentioned Gosport so it must be the same sub.
I see the Museum link has gone missing from the site. I was able to find it at:
http://www.psubs.org/museum/gosport_biber.html
Also we have both interior and exterior pictures of the HMS Aliance, X-24 and Italian Maiale at Gostport. For a general link to all the museum pages go to:
http://www.psubs.org/museum/
Regards,
Ray
--- On Thu, 7/31/08, Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Restoring a Biber (or Beaver) midget submarine
To: "PSUBSorg" <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Date: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 9:12 AM
"After an immense amount of work, along with help from technical experts at Fleet Support Limited in Portsmouth, at last the Biber is restored. After 60 years on dry land, rescue pilot Tom Heron takes our submarine beneath the waves again, while Heinz Huebler watches from the shore. It is the only working Second World War submarine in the world."
http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/S/salvage_squad/machines/sub/index.html#4
I would like to see larger versions of the pictures shown on this web page.
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