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Bryce,
You've been out for a while, so I thought
you might like to know that the sub formerly known as UC3, is now the
Nautilus. No worries, I won't tell Peter on ya. ; )' To your list of
challenges I have spent some time thinking about those same
items.
1. Storing hydrogen safely is a
challenge I've heard allot of people talking about. I had been thinking of
a double tank assembly for storing hydrogen. With one tank and all
its fittings inside another close fitting tank that has one or more
hydrogen and pressure sensors in it to detect if a hydrogen leak is coming out
of the internal pressure tanks or it's fittings and pipes. Both tanks would
be rated for the same internal pressure and you would keep your
stored hydrogen at a safe pressure as specified by the tank
manufacturer. If a hydrogen leak is detected in the
lager tank, an alarm would go off to let you know there is a problem in
that tank. I also wanted to continue that basic setup to the
supply tubes to fill the inner tank and those that are going to the
fuel cell or other device that is burning the hydrogen to produce
power. This way if there is a leak or a collision with the sub you
have some reasonable protection. I haven't done a detailed model of
it just yet so it's very much a work in progress.
When surfaced, or for other none
submerged applications like storing hydrogen for powering and heating your home,
I was thinking of a bleed off system for the larger tank to send out any
hydrogen once it got to a certain pressure through a couple of pop off valves
that then sent the gas through tubes away from any thing that could burn, and
slowly release it into a large tube that has a series of water misters inside
it. These misters are turned on automatically when the said sensor
alarms go off, and they create a no spark environment for the hydrogen to
exit the storage system. The mister tube will simply be open at the
end to allow the hydrogen and fog to go into
the atmosphere. I could just have the double tank system and likely
be ok, but if your first backup fails you could have serious
trouble. Both the internal and external tank systems would of
course need to be pressure tested with high pressure air for a period of time
before you would fill the internal tank with hydrogen. Another option I
see to use instead of releasing the hydrogen into the atmosphere is for it
to be recompressed into one or more tanks, using a special inline high
pressure pump. I've seen
systems for houses that use the energy produced from solar panels or wind
turbines to split water and store it for later use when the house needed
it. That is one reason I started to think about it for my own energy
needs.
2. One of the reasons I was thinking
about the above gas storage systems was to store hydrogen produced from water
turbines I'm planning to install in the creek on my property. I would be
able to produce a large amount of electricity of which would require massive
amounts of batteries to store the power. So I would use one of the more
efficient electrolyses devices I've been researching, to split water and
then collect the hydrogen and oxygen and compress them into storage tanks for
later use for my house, car, or perhaps a submarine. This same basic idea
could be used on a large live aboard submarine that is collecting energy from
solar panels, wind turbines, or even water turbines when anchored,
whether surfaced or submerged. That way you can collect much larger amounts
of energy then you could using batteries alone.
3. Duck tape and gum work wonders.
:)" It's to late to try to answer that
one.
4. A good quality colloidal silver
can be very effective on killing of bacteria with out damaging your bodies
cells.
Regards,
Brent Hartwig
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:49
AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Millennium
Cell HydroPak
Thanks for the welcome back Brent. I spose that is true, more
power cannot be a bad thing. I did some research on a few companies that have
products that have been developed for bus and auto transport (VERY SMALL
systems btw) not more then 3 cubic feet or so. And they produce 100Kw and up
to 450 Amps... The systems are most definitely there for us to install into
psubs. The next challenges in my book (because I do want to use Fuel Cells to
power my vessel because unfortunately I cant use a Nuclear Reactor just yet
:-( )
1 - Fuel storage system
2 - Where do you buy Commercial grade hydrogen?
3 - figuring out how to hook up their system to our on board systems
(they have both AC and DC systems)
4 - I cant remember, its to late, and I just got out of the hospital for
the third night in a row, I cant seem to kick this bacteria infection I have
(oh btw.. happy new year. haha). But hopefully as soon as I am well (within a
week or so) I will be diving deep into designing my sub down to every single
nitty gritty detail. Btw.. Peter your still my psub idol with your Kraka and
UC3 lol.
Bryce
On Jan 5, 2008, at 12:28 AM, Brent Hartwig wrote:
Greetings
Bryce,
Welcome back, it's good to hear
you got recharged. There is more interesting projects in the works in this
group then every before. I would expect it to be hard to get an average
power draw for a PSUB unless you narrow it down to a number if different
class sizes of PSUBS and even then it's all over the place. I
would expect that if there was allot of fully submerged, electric power
available to almost any PSUB, the owners would either install larger and/or
more electric thrusters, and/or just plan to get more endurance out of there
craft.
Cheers,
Brent
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 10:12
PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Millennium
Cell HydroPak
On the subject of Hydrogen Fuel Cell Systems.. how much
power does a
TYPICAL PSUB draw? I have
done some research on systems and they can
produce massive amounts of
KW, but it is the Amps I am worried about.
The systems I have been
investigating are also designed for
transportation systems, both
automotive and transit bus, which does
not eliminate it from the
larger psubs.
Also on a side note, sorry I have not been around in
such a while, but
after going through all of
the emails lately, I have been recharged
and am ready to get to work
(or at least planning that is. :-) )
Bryce
On Jan 4,
2008, at 9:20 PM, irox wrote:
>
> Hi
Brent,
>
> the water vapor comes from the electrical
production (like of), then
> then hydrogen combines with the oxygen
in the fuel cell, it will from
> water (while releasing electrons we
can use). This is water vapor
> I would like to
capture.
>
> Using a water absorption cartridges would work,
although this means
> planning carrying extra if you plan to operate
the fuel cell. Maybe
> a simple condenser would work,
using waste heat or a little power
> from the fuel
cell.
>
> Also, another question to ask the Millennium Cell
people. How hot
> does it run? Can we use that heat (or
get rid of it if we don't
> want it)?
>
>
Cheers,
> Ian.
>
> -----Original
Message-----
>> From: Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
>>
Sent: Jan 4, 2008 11:46 PM
>> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Millennium Cell
HydroPak
>>
>>
>> Ian,
>>
>>
Interesting information. From the looks of the date on there
PDF
>> file,
they have larger units planned as well. Also there is a note
>> about it being safe
for indoor use with zero harmful emissions
>> claimed. I'm still
not sure if the cartridges take O2 out of the
>> air, but it doesn't
look like you have to provide any from a tank.
>> I'm not sure what
your talking about with regards to water vapor
>> collection. It
sounds like you just pour some water into the unit
>> of which goes into
the cartridge starting a chemical reaction. I
>> wouldn't expect all
that much water vapor to come out of it. But if
>> there was you could
have it's vent going directly into your air
>> circulation system
that has water absorption cartridges inline.
>>
>>
Regards,
>> Brent Hartwig> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 15:54:05
-0500> From: irox@ix.netcom.com
>> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
>> Millennium Cell
HydroPak> > > Hi,> > seems a company called
>> Millenniunm Cell are
releasing (or demonstrating)> a customer fuel
>> cell at CES in Las
Vagas next week:> > http://gizmodo.com/340275/hydropak-fuel-cell-to-debut-at-ces-2008
>> > http://www.millenniumcell.com/fw/main/MCEL_in_the_News-69.html>
>
>>
Seems their approach is to have a generator unit with
replaceable>
>> cartridges
containing H2 (in some form).> > Is anybody on the list
>> attending CES this
year and could check it out?> I'm wondering
>> about the
suitability for use in psubs, either for AIP> or as an
>> emergency power
option.> > How safe is it for non-ventilated spaces?
>> > Is water vapor
collection going to be difficult to implement?>
>> Specifics about
power output (claims 25Watt continuous at 100V
>> AC).> What
chemical is the hydrogen stored in?> Does it provide
>> it's own O2 (I'm
guessing we supply that)?> > Nice to see these
>> products making
their way to market.> > Cheers,> Ian.> > > >
>
>>
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