RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 200ton 18meter Live aboard submarine

[irox <irox@ix.netcom.com>]

Hi Jon,

Wil's prototype was 9meter long with a mass of around 20tons.  I do not
know the maximum drive depth he took it to.  Wil, can you enlighten us
please?

Viewport retaining rings.  This is something I want to use, I've not
figured out exactly what/how yet, but I'm sure a solution can be found.
Could you point me to the page/pages in the Stachiw book (which i have
right here) that talk about the retaining ring being a major part of
the viewport's structure.  I'm curious as to what is said about view
ports what are bolted on rather than retained with a ring.

The metal hatch vs metal viewports.  This boat isn't coming out of the
water very often, so Wil is trying to reduce the maintainance required
below the water line.  Avoiding putting metal components below the
water will help.  The hatch will be above the water, so it can easily
be inspected, repaired or replaced as needed.

50cm is the inside diameter.  If I don't pay for the Acrylic to be
shrunk and annealed when I buy it I will assume it hasn't been and
will either hire somebody else to do it or do it myself.

Dive depth.  10meters is a very respectable dive depth for a house
boat.  30meters will no be it's operational depth upon arrival, only
it's tested depth.  Hard to give it an operational depth on arrival
since many things will change as it gets fitted out - but 30 meters
is enough to test most of the systems.  I will think about more depth
testing before the hand over, although depth testing after the vessel
has been fitted out will still have to happen.

Cheers,
 Ian.
(I hope I didn't miss any of your questions.)

-----Original Message-----
>From: Jon Wallace <jon@psubs.org>
>Sent: Dec 28, 2007 2:54 AM
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 200ton 18meter Live aboard submarine
>
>
>Hi Ian,
>
>This sounds like a very interesting project, and I wish you the best with
>it.  I've read the discussion you and Wilfried have had (posted on his
>website) regarding the design of the vessel which was also very interesting.
>Given that this type of vessel can be fabricated in multiple sizes, do you
>know what size vessel Wil's prototype was, and what maximum depth he
>achieved with it?
>
>Wil suggests as part of your discussion with him, that using silicone
>sealant alone to hold the viewports in the vessel is sufficient.  However,
>according to Stachiw a viewport retaining ring is an integral part of the
>thru-hull design and the critical pressure for a viewport of a particular
>size would be severely reduced without one.  From what I can gather of your
>discussions, the issue you and Wil appear to be discussing is the issue of
>retaining the viewports in case of overpressure.  However, the primary
>purpose of the viewport retaining ring is not to deal with overpressure, but
>to control flexing of the viewport as high pressure is applied to it during
>a dive.  Have I misread this part of the discussion?  Have you resolved this
>issue, and if so, what did you ultimately decide?  Also, I found it
>interesting that the reason Wil provided for not including a retaining ring
>was because the metal ring and bolts could corrode (had you considered
>Stainless Steel?), but on the other hand he recommends a metal hatch.  Can
>you comment on that?
>
>Wil has been pretty straight forward in your discussions with him that he
>has no structural calculations, reference data, or actual testing available
>to determine the crush depth of the sub that he hands off to you.
>Ultimately, it looks like you both agreed that he would test the sub to 30
>meters before handing it off to you, even though you've made it clear that
>you would like to reach 100-250 meters.  Have you considered taking some of
>the $90k for fitting out and extras, and putting it towards a deeper test
>trial before taking delivery?  Also, assuming the sub passes the 30 meter
>test dive, will that be considered it's operational depth or will you employ
>some safety factor and reduce the operational depth for "everyday" dives?
>I'm assuming (perhaps erroneously) that your primary purpose for the vessel
>is as a yacht, and that diving is a secondary purpose.  Even 10 meters for a
>200 ton "personal" sub would be an impressive depth, I would think.
>
>I believe Wil is incorrect when he states, "...PVHO-1 recommended
>proceedures are the standard production procedures in acrylic
>manufacturing..." and in fact the reverse is true.  Only acrylic
>manufactured to PVHO-1 standards would be shrunk and annealed.  You'll need
>to discuss this with your supplier to be sure of what you are getting.
>
>Regarding your viewports, if you follow PVHO-1 standards for flat disc
>acrylic you'll need a 1.25 bearing ratio for them.  I'm curious if the 50cm
>viewport you mentioned is the viewable dimension from the inside of the sub,
>or the overall dimension as viewed from the outside of the sub?  You might
>also check out the plane disc viewport calculator that is at
>http://www.psubs.org/design/calculators.html to see if it matches with
>calculations you might have already done regarding dimensions of the
>viewports for your sub.
>
>Jon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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