Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 200ton 18meter Live aboard submarine

[MerlinSub@t-online.de]

Ian, you really want to outfiting a 200 ts 
boat via a 1 Diameter hatch ??
Sorry - but how many years you have time ? 

For a 200 ts boat a drop weight of about 
of something around 10 ts are more common. 

best regards Carsten 

"irox" <irox@ix.netcom.com> schrieb:
> 
> Hi Carsten,
> 
> yes, I would like to do FE-calculation for hull failure depth.
> If anybody has any pointers on where to have FEA work done or
> software to look at, it would be much appreciated.
> 
> Drop weights:  Yes, I would like some!  I'm not sure how they will
> be incorporated, maybe as part of a landing skid.  Or maybe as
> some sort of keel running a long the bottom.  Several smaller
> weights, say 4 to 10, totaling a 1000kg.
> 
> Keel to rest on the bottom: I'm still not sure about this one,
> but I would like the hull to rest upright without any bracing
> if it's taken into a dry dock.
> 
> Anchor system:  I would love to have some sort of automated
> system, but I think in the end it will be an anchor box on
> the deck and manually setting and retrieving the anchor (maybe
> with the help of an electric winch).  Other than setting down
> on the bottom, I don't think I will have any submerged
> anchoring ability.
> 
> Thanks for the pointer to the "A class".  The engine I can
> use is really limited by what I can fit through the 1 meter
> diameter hatch.  Although I've not looked at many big engines,
> there do seem to be engines in the 400hp range that could
> fit through the 1 meter hatch.
> 
> I'll probably still be in the construction phase in 2009, maybe
> I can attend the convention after that one.
> 
> Cheers,
>  Ian.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: MerlinSub@t-online.de
> >Sent: Dec 23, 2007 12:16 PM
> >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 200ton 18meter Live aboard submarine
> >
> >Hi Ian - sound great !
> >
> >But if you go for a concret hull you may should decide for a much greater dive deep - and a FE-calculation. 
> >
> >And delifery test deep should be the greatest 
> >test dive deep not the lowest.. 
> >
> >Drive : 
> >
> >Hmm.. The A3 A British Holland Class of 1903 has some 180 ts and 
> >a 450 hp petrol engine and a 150h p eletric drive. 
> >They run surface 11,5 and submerge 7 knots. 
> >
> >UB I class - WWI German costal boats has 127 ts and a 120 hp / 60 hp drive - they run 5,5 / 6,5 and the description of there crew was: "fine boats but complete underpowered" 
> >
> >Yout boat is cloase in size and shape to some later Holland class - look there for real power and speed figures. 
> >
> >A mass of 200 ts run at 6 knots needs a lot of power for an emergency stop or just for harbour manover - or a lot of space.. 
> >
> >Please note that a Germen one man WWII Delphin which has a similar shape configuration required due to tank test 25 % of his water resistance was to the sail. 
> >
> >2009 we will have a submarine convention in Kiel, Germany 
> >Together with big midgets boats from Sweden, Denmark, Netherland, maybe some other countrys and of course Germany. Hope to see you there - is just a trip over the ocean.. 
> >
> >- Drop weights ? 
> >- keel to resting on the bottom ? 
> >- anchor system ? 
> >
> >regards Carsten 
> >
> >
> >"Ian Roxborough" <irox@ix.netcom.com> schrieb:
> >> 
> >> Hi guys,
> >> 
> >> I guess this announcement is a little over due, but every time
> >> I start writing it I end up working on the design...
> >> 
> >> Anyway, I've managed to get the budget to hire Wilfried to build
> >> a 200ton concrete hull.  I'm very exicited that I get to be one
> >> of first people to experiment with this type of submarine.
> >> 
> >> Funny, I start out (I like many of us) with grand large submarine
> >> designs 10 years ago, learning more and refining my designs as they
> >> get smaller (10man sub, to 4, to 2 person), then designing around
> >> the K350 hull rather than reinventing the small sub.  It feels
> >> strange to have my first sub be so close to the fanciful designs
> >> I started with.
> >> 
> >> These are the rough and working specs, everything can change,
> >> if I make this a 370hp water ski towing sub, the range will be
> >> a lot less, if I run out of battery budget or space, then submerged
> >> range will be less, if I end up with more money to spend and more
> >> space, the range will be greater.  Also, so much space, I can add
> >> more fuel, more batteries, more heads, etc. very easily.  These
> >> specs are far higher than my original hopes, so I don't mind if
> >> I have to cut things back because of cost or performance.
> >> 
> >> The Specs:
> >> 
> >>  Displacement: 200tons
> >>  Length: 18meter
> >>  Width: 4.3meters
> >>  Height: 6.5meters (depending on sail design)
> >> 
> >>  Operational dive depth: 50meters (unmanned 150M test required)
> >>                         100-250meters (after refit/testing)
> >>                         Delivery test is 30meters.
> >> 
> >>  Surface range: 3000+miles
> >>  Submerged range: 300miles at slow speed (~1.5knots)
> >>  Submerged endurance: 4 people, 1 week (with 3x emergence)
> >>                    or 10 people, 24hours (with 10x emergence)
> >> 
> >>  Interior floor space: 40square meters (430sqft)
> >> 
> >>  1 forward view port, diameter 1 meter
> >>  6 - 8 side facing view ports, 3-4 per side diamter (50cms)
> >>  1 hatch leading to the sail
> >>  1 hatch on the aft deck (for possible docking
> >>    with a small sub, diver lockout unit, loading/unloading
> >>    cargo/equipment/supplies)
> >> 
> >>  Propultion/power:
> >>    diesel engine belt drive 30-100hp
> >>    electric motor belt drive 3-10-30hp
> >>    diesel generator 100hp? (or 2x 50hp) 
> >>    ~3tons batteries
> >>    diesel fuel (~3000liters?)
> >>    electric bow truster
> >>    electric stern thruster
> >> 
> >>  Life support:
> >>    12 x 3454 Liters O2 Cylinders (Luxfer Aluminum Oxygen Cylinders M-110-0760)
> >>    Providing 41448 Liters of airs.
> >>    10362 liters for operational supply.
> >>    31086 liters for emergency supply.
> >>    112 man days (16 weeks) of O2.
> >> 
> >>  Ballast:
> >>    Forward and Aft external ballast tanks (maybe external side tanks as well)
> >>    3 ton internal tank with an electrical pump (can be VBT)
> >>    2 ton (1 ton + 2x 0.5ton) internal hard tanks for trim
> >>      and VBT, can be operated with presision electical pump or high pressure
> >>      gas
> >> 
> >> I've been testing out different CAD packages, I uploaded a couple of
> >> images, so much stuff missing or in the wrong place.  Just
> >> kicking around some ideas.  I'll have some better images ready soon.
> >> 
> >> http://monkeyview.net/id/2768/substuff/csub200/rough/index.vhtml
> >> http://monkeyview.net/id/2768/substuff/csub200/rough/csub200_2d_000.jpg
> >> http://monkeyview.net/id/2768/substuff/csub200/rough/subc200_3d.jpg
> >> 
> >> One the main goals I have with this sub is to keep it as flexible
> >> and reconfigurable as possible.  So I want to be able to do things
> >> like detach the luxary yatch sail, and attach the ROV deployment
> >> sail to go and investigate a shipwreck from a safe distance or
> >> that is outside of my operational depth.
> >> 
> >> The working budget is fairly low for a project of this size.
> >> The hull cost $90K usd, I hope to have the sub fitted out for
> >> $45K, and hoping to keep an another $45K for extras, like ROVs
> >> and plasma TV.  We'll see how this works out, whatever happens,
> >> I'm sure I can get this thing full operation even if I'm missing
> >> the plasma TV.
> >> 
> >> I'm really looking forward to this adventure.  Please feel free
> >> to share your throughts and ideas about this project.
> >> 
> >> Thanks,
> >>   Ian.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
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