For communications underwater to be over any distance and
dependable, frequency shifting must occur. Communications at the normal frequency
range for human speech is not dependable and drowned out easily by other
sources. This should be on the same frequency as the Navy’s UQC (“Gertrude”)
underwater phone not only to have optimum communications but also to be compatible
with world-wide underwater rescue resources. There is an effort along these
lines going on slowly now to provide a system design that would be easy to
construct and economical.
R/Jay
Respectfully,
Jay K. Jeffries
Andros Is., Bahamas
A skimmer afloat is but a submarine, so poorly built it will not
plunge.
From:
owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of David
Bartsch
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 3:14 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RFC - Radio communications for submersible
dive operations
To all,
Communications via underwater active/passive sonar is under
development and already is showing great promise! A conversation will be
possible between two submerged submarines and depth will no longer be of
concideration! The ongoing research should be able to provide substantial
information by this comming Spring following some extensive testing
and the results will be shared with the group.
David Bartsch
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> From: james@guernseysubmarine.com
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RFC - Radio communications for submersible
dive operations
> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:10:38 +0100
>
> Hello Carsten and all.
>
> Interesting to hear that CB penetrates the water to 24 feet. Would the
range of the radio be improved if the recieving antene was dangled into the
water? Does it work in salt water?
>
> Does anybody have any sort of submerged sub to ship communication that
works with salt water? I believe its quite hard to achieve except at low
frequencies.
>
> I checked out a company that make data communication devices for oil rigs.
They are very expensive, but apparently they are developing a new system for
divers that is more reasonably priced. ok, its not voice, but a txt message
from 1km away is still pretty good!
>
> Here is a copy of an email i recieved from the company.
>
> regards
> James
>
> Hi James,
>
> We have done some work on acoustic through-water communication using
subsea acoustic modems and have supplied several systems to date. Each has been
different as each has been tailored for specific applications.
> Typical applications have been to send data from a subsea sensor to the
surface, but we have also worked on a few AUV projects where commands have been
sent to the vehicle from the surface, and data has been sent from the vehicle
to the surface.
> However, to my knowledge we have not yet transmitted speech through water.
It may be something we are looking at, as we are developing a new ?micron?
modem which, amongst other things, will hopefully be very useful to the diver
market.
>
> Our acoustic modem systems currently range in price from around UKP 11,000
to UKP 25,000 depending upon the setup.
> The new micron modem, able to transmit low data rates up to 1km, should be
around UKP 2,000 per subsea head.
>
> I hope this initial information helps.
> Best regards,
> Paul
> Paul Hudson
> Marketing Executive
> Tritech International Limited
> Peregrine Road, Westhill Business Park, Westhill, Aberdeen, AB32 6JL.
> ++ 44 (0)1224 744111 (tel)
> ++ 44 (0)1224 741771 (fax)
> www.tritech.co.uk
>
> Tritech International Limited is registered in Scotland.
> Registered number: 85501. Registered office: 34 Albyn Place, Aberdeen.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: MerlinSub@t-online.de [mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de]
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Sent: 23 Oct 2007 18:11 GMT
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RFC - Radio communications for submersible
dive operations
>
>
> Nemo and Peppers has CB-Radios for communication, with support boats
> but this works also underwater in fresh water on short distance as sub to
sub communications.
> CB works underwater to surface support about 18-24 feet. Sub to sub about
9-18 feet.
>
> Euronaut has both CB and VHF marine radio.
> In Germany you need a radio-operator licence to handle a vhf-radio - for a
CB not.
>
> For a freshwater lake boat the (here) cheaper CB is okay,
> - a offshore sub should have better vhf.
>
> External antenna is required on steel hull subs in both cases.
>
> regards Carsten
>
>
>
> " Dan. H." <jumachine@comcast.net> schrieb:
> > I don't have a marine radio in my sub. I just use a CB type walkie
talkie,
> > but I should have one and so should every boat. I think it's a good
idea
> > and I'll get one installed in my sub for next season.
> >
> > Dan H.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ray Keefer" <psubs2001@yahoo.com>
> > To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 2:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RFC - Radio communications for
submersible dive
> > operations
> >
> >
> > > Hi Folks,
> > >
> > > This proposal orginally went out on 22 Sep 2007.
> > > Section 8 says you have 45 days to comment on this
> > > proposal. You have about 15 days left.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Ray
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Jon Wallace <jon@psubs.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Hello psubbers,
> > >>
> > >> Below is an RFC regarding a new guideline to require
> > >> Marine Band (VHF)
> > >> radios in submersibles during dive operations,
> > >> particularly those involving
> > >> PSUBS.ORG. We would like your input. Hopefully the
> > >> text will format
> > >> correctly as part of the email and won't require
> > >> attachment as a file.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Jon
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> AUTHOR: Jon Wallace
> > >> ORGANIZATION: PSUBS.ORG
> > >> SUBJECT: Radio Equipment for Submersible Dive
> > >> Operations
> > >> RFC ID: PSUBS-RFC-20070001
> > >> Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > >>
> > >> ***************************
> > >> *** REQUEST FOR COMMENT ***
> > >> ***************************
> > >>
> > >> 1. Purpose.
> > >> To standardize the radio equipment to be used for
> > >> communication between
> > >> support personnel and submersible pilots while the
> > >> submersible is in
> > >> water, but surfaced.
> > >>
> > >> 2. Introduction.
> > >> Surface communication with submersibles is an
> > >> important safety element
> > >> that helps both the sub-pilot and ship/shore support
> > >> personnel coordinate
> > >> pre-dive and post-dive activities. This is
> > >> particularly true in cases
> > >> where multiple submersibles are within close
> > >> quarters of each other and
> > >> participating in an organized event such as the
> > >> PSUBS convention. The
> > >> 2006 and 2007 PSUBS conventions hosted dive
> > >> operations with multiple
> > >> submersibles of varying types and capabilities.
> > >> Managing these events
> > >> in the interests of safety proved to be difficult
> > >> due to differences in
> > >> equipment, and in some cases, no communication
> > >> equipment at all. It is
> > >> to the benefit of everyone involved if a
> > >> standardized means of
> > >> communication can be implemented for future events.
> > >>
> > >> 3. Proposal.
> > >> A) Marine Band (VHF) radios shall be the standard
> > >> radio device used for
> > >> communications when a submersible is surfaced
> > >> upon any body of water.
> > >> B) As part of the pre-dive planning, the specific
> > >> channel used for
> > >> communications shall be determined and agreed
> > >> upon by all parties.
> > >> C) Use of such radios shall be in accordance with
> > >> laws and regulations
> > >> within the jurisdiction of the dive site.
> > >>
> > >> 4. Justification.
> > >> A) Marine Band (VHF) radios are reasonably priced
> > >> units that are accepted
> > >> as standard equipment on most surface vessels
> > >> throughout the world.
> > >> B) Marine Band (VHF) radios include frequencies
> > >> that allow access to
> > >> weather reports. This can be important
> > >> information for diving
> > >> operations.
> > >> C) Marine Band (VHF) radios include a specific
> > >> emergency channel (16)
> > >> that is monitored by all seagoing traffic not
> > >> involved in any
> > >> ship-to-ship or ship-to-shore communication, and
> > >> the US Coast Guard
> > >> within the United States coastal waters.
> > >> D) Marine Band (VHF) radios are available as either
> > >> base units or hand-held
> > >> units which allows sub-owners flexibility when
> > >> incorporating the radio
> > >> into their existing submersible or designing
> > >> their submersible.
> > >> E) Marine Band (VHF) radios can be operated
> > >> directly off of internal power
> > >> within the submersible, or from independent
> > >> batteries or internal power
> > >> in the case of hand-held units.
> > >> F) Marine Band (VHF) radios have transmission power
> > >> that exceeds most
> > >> other non-license type communication devices,
> > >> thereby fostering clear
> > >> communications.
> > >>
> > >> 5. Requirements.
> > >> None.
> > >>
> > >> 6. Dependencies.
> > >> None.
> > >>
> > >> 7. Enforcement.
> > >> This is a voluntary safety standard. However, if
> > >> this standard is adopted
> > >> by PSUBS.ORG, submersible owners/pilots who do not
> > >> have the capability to
> > >> perform surface communication via FCC approved
> > >> Marine Band (VHF)
> > >> frequencies will not be allowed to dive at PSUBS.ORG
> > >> sponsored events.
> > >> Those submersibles that do not meet this
> > >> communication criteria are still
> > >> encouraged to attend and participate in the static
> > >> display portion of the
> > >> event.
> > >>
> > >> 8. Comment Deadline.
> > >> Comments will no longer be accepted 45 days after
> > >> the first posting of this
> > >> proposal.
> > >>
> > >> 9. Comment Evaluation.
> > >> All comments will be evaluated for potential
> > >> inclusion in the standard
> > >> within 30 days after the comment deadline.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
************************************************************************
> > >>
> > >
************************************************************************
> > >>
> > > ************************************************************************
> > >> The personal submersibles mailing list complies with
> > >> the US Federal
> > >> CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in
> > >> our database
> > >> because either you, or someone you know, requested
> > >> you receive messages
> > >> from our organization.
> > >>
> > >> If you want to be removed from this mailing list
> > >> simply click on the
> > >> link below or send a blank email message to:
> > >> removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > >>
> > >> Removal of your email address from this mailing list
> > >> occurs by an
> > >> automated process and should be complete within five
> > >> minutes of
> > >> our server receiving your request.
> > >>
> > >> PSUBS.ORG
> > >> PO Box 53
> > >> Weare, NH 03281
> > >> 603-529-1100
> > >>
> > >
************************************************************************
> > >>
> > >
************************************************************************
> > >>
> > > ************************************************************************
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
************************************************************************
> > >>
> > >
************************************************************************
> > >>
> > >
************************************************************************
> > >> The personal submersibles mailing list complies with
> > >> the US Federal
> > >> CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in
> > >> our database
> > >> because either you, or someone you know, requested
> > >> you receive messages
> > >> from our organization.
> > >>
> > >> If you want to be removed from this mailing list
> > >> simply click on the
> > >> link below or send a blank email message to:
> > >> removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > >>
> > >> Removal of your email address from this mailing list
> > >> occurs by an
> > >> automated process and should be complete within five
> > >> minutes of
> > >> our server receiving your request.
> > >>
> > >> PSUBS.ORG
> > >> PO Box 53
> > >> Weare, NH 03281
> > >> 603-529-1100
> > >>
> > >
************************************************************************
> > >>
> > >
************************************************************************
> > >>
> > >
************************************************************************
> > >>
> > >>
> > > === message truncated ===
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
************************************************************************
> > >
************************************************************************
> > > ************************************************************************
> > > The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US
Federal
> > > CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database
> > > because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive
messages
> > > from our organization.
> > >
> > > If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on
the
> > > link below or send a blank email message to:
> > > removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > >
> > > Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by
an
> > > automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
> > > our server receiving your request.
> > >
> > > PSUBS.ORG
> > > PO Box 53
> > > Weare, NH 03281
> > > 603-529-1100
> > > ************************************************************************
> > >
************************************************************************
> > >
************************************************************************
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
************************************************************************
> >
************************************************************************
> >
************************************************************************
> > The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
> > CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database
> > because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive
messages
> > from our organization.
> >
> > If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
> > link below or send a blank email message to:
> > removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >
> > Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
> > automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
> > our server receiving your request.
> >
> > PSUBS.ORG
> > PO Box 53
> > Weare, NH 03281
> > 603-529-1100
> >
************************************************************************
> > ************************************************************************
> >
************************************************************************
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
> CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database
> because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
> from our organization.
>
> If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
> link below or send a blank email message to:
> removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>
> Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
> automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
> our server receiving your request.
>
> PSUBS.ORG
> PO Box 53
> Weare, NH 03281
> 603-529-1100
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
>
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