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RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RFC - Radio communications for submersible dive operations

To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RFC - Radio communications for submersible dive operations
From: "Jay K. Jeffries" <bottomgun@mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 22:25:21 -0400
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Reply-to: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
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Dan,
An external antenna will greatly improve your range for communications.
Just don't transmit when any portion of it is in contact with the water.
Even if you encase it in something to keep it dry, the impedance will be
changed with submergence and can result in damage to your radio.  This is
from first hand experience.
R/J2 
 

Respectfully,
Jay K. Jeffries
Andros Is., Bahamas

A skimmer afloat is but a submarine, so poorly built it will not plunge.


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Dan. H.
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:41 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RFC - Radio communications for submersible dive
operations

Jay,

So, you say don't use an external antenna on a sub or are you saying the 
antenna should be encased in something nonconductive, rubber hose?

Dan H.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jay K. Jeffries" <bottomgun@mindspring.com>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 7:04 PM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RFC - Radio communications for submersible dive

operations


> You have to be careful attention about transmitting through an antenna in
> contact with the water.  On the typical low wattage transceivers to be
> expected with a marine VHF radio, the transmitter can be overloaded and
> burned out due to the high conductivity of the water and impedance 
> mismatch.
> High powered transmitters can blow out the antenna.
> R/Jay
> KF4DBI
>
>
> Respectfully,
> Jay K. Jeffries
> Andros Is., Bahamas
>
> A skimmer afloat is but a submarine, so poorly built it will not plunge.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Dan. H.
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:08 PM
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RFC - Radio communications for submersible 
> dive
> operations
>
> Carsten,  Or any other antenna guys out there.
>
> I don't have an outside antenna so I can only transmit through less then a
> meter of water.  Is your external antenna in actual contact with water or 
> is
>
> the antenna insulated inside a hose or something?  I am wondering if an
> antenna in contact with water will be shorted to ground.  Maybe it is 
> better
>
> that way.  I don't know.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan H.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <MerlinSub@t-online.de>
> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 2:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RFC - Radio communications for submersible 
> dive
>
> operations
>
>
>
> Nemo and Peppers has CB-Radios for communication, with support boats
> but this works also underwater in fresh water on short distance as sub to
> sub communications.
> CB works underwater to surface support about 18-24 feet. Sub to sub about
> 9-18 feet.
>
> Euronaut has both CB and VHF marine radio.
> In Germany you need a radio-operator licence to handle a vhf-radio - for a
> CB not.
>
> For a freshwater lake boat the (here) cheaper CB is okay,
> - a offshore sub should have better vhf.
>
> External antenna is required on steel hull subs in both cases.
>
> regards Carsten
>
>
>
> " Dan. H." <jumachine@comcast.net> schrieb:
>> I don't have a marine radio in my sub.  I just use a CB type walkie
>> talkie,
>> but I should have one and so should every boat.  I think it's a good idea
>> and I'll get one installed in my sub for next season.
>>
>> Dan H.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Ray Keefer" <psubs2001@yahoo.com>
>> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
>> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 2:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RFC - Radio communications for submersible
>> dive
>> operations
>>
>>
>> > Hi Folks,
>> >
>> > This proposal orginally went out on 22 Sep 2007.
>> > Section 8 says you have 45 days to comment on this
>> > proposal. You have about 15 days left.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Ray
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- Jon Wallace <jon@psubs.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Hello psubbers,
>> >>
>> >> Below is an RFC regarding a new guideline to require
>> >> Marine Band (VHF)
>> >> radios in submersibles during dive operations,
>> >> particularly those involving
>> >> PSUBS.ORG.  We would like your input.  Hopefully the
>> >> text will format
>> >> correctly as part of the email and won't require
>> >> attachment as a file.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Jon
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> AUTHOR:         Jon Wallace
>> >> ORGANIZATION:   PSUBS.ORG
>> >> SUBJECT:        Radio Equipment for Submersible Dive
>> >> Operations
>> >> RFC ID:         PSUBS-RFC-20070001
>> >> Reply-To:       personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>> >>
>> >> ***************************
>> >> *** REQUEST FOR COMMENT ***
>> >> ***************************
>> >>
>> >> 1. Purpose.
>> >> To standardize the radio equipment to be used for
>> >> communication between
>> >> support personnel and submersible pilots while the
>> >> submersible is in
>> >> water, but surfaced.
>> >>
>> >> 2. Introduction.
>> >> Surface communication with submersibles is an
>> >> important safety element
>> >> that helps both the sub-pilot and ship/shore support
>> >> personnel coordinate
>> >> pre-dive and post-dive activities.  This is
>> >> particularly true in cases
>> >> where multiple submersibles are within close
>> >> quarters of each other and
>> >> participating in an organized event such as the
>> >> PSUBS convention.  The
>> >> 2006 and 2007 PSUBS conventions hosted dive
>> >> operations with multiple
>> >> submersibles of varying types and capabilities.
>> >> Managing these events
>> >> in the interests of safety proved to be difficult
>> >> due to differences in
>> >> equipment, and in some cases, no communication
>> >> equipment at all.  It is
>> >> to the benefit of everyone involved if a
>> >> standardized means of
>> >> communication can be implemented for future events.
>> >>
>> >> 3. Proposal.
>> >>  A) Marine Band (VHF) radios shall be the standard
>> >> radio device used for
>> >>     communications when a submersible is surfaced
>> >> upon any body of water.
>> >>  B) As part of the pre-dive planning, the specific
>> >> channel used for
>> >>     communications shall be determined and agreed
>> >> upon by all parties.
>> >>  C) Use of such radios shall be in accordance with
>> >> laws and regulations
>> >>     within the jurisdiction of the dive site.
>> >>
>> >> 4. Justification.
>> >>  A) Marine Band (VHF) radios are reasonably priced
>> >> units that are accepted
>> >>     as standard equipment on most surface vessels
>> >> throughout the world.
>> >>  B) Marine Band (VHF) radios include frequencies
>> >> that allow access to
>> >>     weather reports.  This can be important
>> >> information for diving
>> >>     operations.
>> >>  C) Marine Band (VHF) radios include a specific
>> >> emergency channel (16)
>> >>     that is monitored by all seagoing traffic not
>> >> involved in any
>> >>     ship-to-ship or ship-to-shore communication, and
>> >> the US Coast Guard
>> >>     within the United States coastal waters.
>> >>  D) Marine Band (VHF) radios are available as either
>> >> base units or hand-held
>> >>     units which allows sub-owners flexibility when
>> >> incorporating the radio
>> >>     into their existing submersible or designing
>> >> their submersible.
>> >>  E) Marine Band (VHF) radios can be operated
>> >> directly off of internal power
>> >>     within the submersible, or from independent
>> >> batteries or internal power
>> >>     in the case of hand-held units.
>> >>  F) Marine Band (VHF) radios have transmission power
>> >> that exceeds most
>> >>     other non-license type communication devices,
>> >> thereby fostering clear
>> >>     communications.
>> >>
>> >> 5. Requirements.
>> >>    None.
>> >>
>> >> 6. Dependencies.
>> >>    None.
>> >>
>> >> 7. Enforcement.
>> >> This is a voluntary safety standard.  However, if
>> >> this standard is adopted
>> >> by PSUBS.ORG, submersible owners/pilots who do not
>> >> have the capability to
>> >> perform surface communication via FCC approved
>> >> Marine Band (VHF)
>> >> frequencies will not be allowed to dive at PSUBS.ORG
>> >> sponsored events.
>> >> Those submersibles that do not meet this
>> >> communication criteria are still
>> >> encouraged to attend and participate in the static
>> >> display portion of the
>> >> event.
>> >>
>> >> 8. Comment Deadline.
>> >> Comments will no longer be accepted 45 days after
>> >> the first posting of this
>> >> proposal.
>> >>
>> >> 9. Comment Evaluation.
>> >> All comments will be evaluated for potential
>> >> inclusion in the standard
>> >> within 30 days after the comment deadline.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
************************************************************************
>> >>
>> >
************************************************************************
>> >>
>> >
************************************************************************
>> >> The personal submersibles mailing list complies with
>> >> the US Federal
>> >> CAN-SPAM Act of 2003.  Your email address appears in
>> >> our database
>> >> because either you, or someone you know, requested
>> >> you receive messages
>> >> from our organization.
>> >>
>> >> If you want to be removed from this mailing list
>> >> simply click on the
>> >> link below or send a blank email message to:
>> >> removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>> >>
>> >> Removal of your email address from this mailing list
>> >> occurs by an
>> >> automated process and should be complete within five
>> >> minutes of
>> >> our server receiving your request.
>> >>
>> >> PSUBS.ORG
>> >> PO Box 53
>> >> Weare, NH  03281
>> >> 603-529-1100
>> >>
>> >
************************************************************************
>> >>
>> >
************************************************************************
>> >>
>> >
************************************************************************
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
************************************************************************
>> >>
>> >
************************************************************************
>> >>
>> >
************************************************************************
>> >> The personal submersibles mailing list complies with
>> >> the US Federal
>> >> CAN-SPAM Act of 2003.  Your email address appears in
>> >> our database
>> >> because either you, or someone you know, requested
>> >> you receive messages
>> >> from our organization.
>> >>
>> >> If you want to be removed from this mailing list
>> >> simply click on the
>> >> link below or send a blank email message to:
>> >> removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>> >>
>> >> Removal of your email address from this mailing list
>> >> occurs by an
>> >> automated process and should be complete within five
>> >> minutes of
>> >> our server receiving your request.
>> >>
>> >> PSUBS.ORG
>> >> PO Box 53
>> >> Weare, NH  03281
>> >> 603-529-1100
>> >>
>> >
************************************************************************
>> >>
>> >
************************************************************************
>> >>
>> >
************************************************************************
>> >>
>> >>
>> > === message truncated ===
>> >
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________
>> > Do You Yahoo!?
>> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> > http://mail.yahoo.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
************************************************************************
>> >
************************************************************************
>> >
************************************************************************
>> > The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
>> > CAN-SPAM Act of 2003.  Your email address appears in our database
>> > because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
>> > from our organization.
>> >
>> > If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
>> > link below or send a blank email message to:
>> > removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>> >
>> > Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
>> > automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
>> > our server receiving your request.
>> >
>> > PSUBS.ORG
>> > PO Box 53
>> > Weare, NH  03281
>> > 603-529-1100
>> >
************************************************************************
>> >
************************************************************************
>> >
************************************************************************
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ************************************************************************
>> ************************************************************************
>> ************************************************************************
>> The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
>> CAN-SPAM Act of 2003.  Your email address appears in our database
>> because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
>> from our organization.
>>
>> If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
>> link below or send a blank email message to:
>> removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>
>> Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
>> automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
>> our server receiving your request.
>>
>> PSUBS.ORG
>> PO Box 53
>> Weare, NH  03281
>> 603-529-1100
>> ************************************************************************
>> ************************************************************************
>> ************************************************************************
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
> CAN-SPAM Act of 2003.  Your email address appears in our database
> because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
> from our organization.
>
> If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
> link below or send a blank email message to:
> removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>
> Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
> automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
> our server receiving your request.
>
> PSUBS.ORG
> PO Box 53
> Weare, NH  03281
> 603-529-1100
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
> CAN-SPAM Act of 2003.  Your email address appears in our database
> because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
> from our organization.
>
> If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
> link below or send a blank email message to:
> removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>
> Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
> automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
> our server receiving your request.
>
> PSUBS.ORG
> PO Box 53
> Weare, NH  03281
> 603-529-1100
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
>
>
>
>
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
> CAN-SPAM Act of 2003.  Your email address appears in our database
> because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
> from our organization.
>
> If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
> link below or send a blank email message to:
> removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>
> Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
> automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
> our server receiving your request.
>
> PSUBS.ORG
> PO Box 53
> Weare, NH  03281
> 603-529-1100
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
>
> 





************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
CAN-SPAM Act of 2003.  Your email address appears in our database
because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
from our organization.

If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
link below or send a blank email message to:
	removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org

Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
our server receiving your request.

PSUBS.ORG
PO Box 53
Weare, NH  03281
603-529-1100
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************




************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
CAN-SPAM Act of 2003.  Your email address appears in our database
because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
from our organization.

If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
link below or send a blank email message to:
	removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org

Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
our server receiving your request.

PSUBS.ORG
PO Box 53
Weare, NH  03281
603-529-1100
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
References:
- Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RFC - Radio communications for submersible dive operations
  - From: MerlinSub@t-online.de
- Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RFC - Radio communications for submersible dive operations
  - From: " Dan. H." <jumachine@comcast.net>
- RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RFC - Radio communications for submersible dive operations
  - From: "Jay K. Jeffries" <bottomgun@mindspring.com>
- Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RFC - Radio communications for submersible dive operations
  - From: " Dan. H." <jumachine@comcast.net>
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