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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Double O-Ring On A Hatch
I like to have that.. - but only the Hull part is a flat stainless steel ring.
The hatch inself is normal steel - and start just to corrode in the o-ring trench..
A stainless steel hatch was to expensive.
In my next life I will order the hatch the same way and build quick the lock
gear pipe in - and take the result to an hot galvanized company..
b.regrads Carsten
"Brian Cox" <ojaivalleybeefarm@dslextreme.com> schrieb:
> But Carsten, I thought your hatch and hatch ring areas were all stainless steel?
>
> Brian
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MerlinSub@t-online.de>
> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 08:05
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Double O-Ring On A Hatch
>
>
> > Hi Brian,
> >
> > A hatch is like a small endcap right?
> >
> > The endcap you have anyway to order.
> > So order just an endcap with a o-ring trench instead a zylinder part.
> >
> > I mean the supplier has anyway to make the zylinder part and the pre-weld design on a lathe.
> >
> > My supplier ask for 400 euros for the hatch and 40 euros for the trench insted of the cylinder part of the endcap.
> >
> > But to go this way the hatch need a thickness about times the o-ring design. Maybe no comon at shallow water subs..
> >
> > XXXXXXXXXX
> > XXX XXX
> > XOX XOX Crossing of the hatch..
> >
> > regrads carsten
> >
> >
> > "Brian Cox" <ojaivalleybeefarm@dslextreme.com> schrieb:
> > > Carsten,
> > > Sorry I'm so dim wittted but I'm not really following how this hatch is constructed with the O ring but with no lathe ? do you have any pictures?
> > >
> > > Brian Cox, Ventura, CA
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <MerlinSub@t-online.de>
> > > To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 09:44
> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Double O-Ring On A Hatch
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Peter,
> > > >
> > > > I think it depents which machine your friend has,
> > > > a good welding machine or a good lathe..
> > > >
> > > > Most submads have a welding machine but no lathe, so that way with
> > > > a welded O Ring grove is a cheap way.
> > > >
> > > > Peppers first Hatch was build yery similar to your description,
> > > > means without a lathe, by the way complete useless on oval shape hatches.
> > > >
> > > > Euronauts o-ring grove was made much, much simpler.. I just order the hatch endcap
> > > > in double tickness than nessesary and inluding a o-ring grove...
> > > > This means the hole Hatch is a single peace and I have not to think
> > > > about weld disorientation. Euronaut has three hatches made this way
> > > > - saves a lot of lathe or welding hours.
> > > >
> > > > regards Carsten - fix 33 of the 66 Hagen-Battery rack position up today,
> > > > tomorrow maybe another douzend.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Peter Madsen" <peter@submarines.dk> schrieb:
> > > > > Sirs,
> > > > >
> > > > > Carsten is also completely overshot...but if you do like he says it will
> > > > > definetly work to very big pressures. Kraka´s hatch is tight, and I mean
> > > > > TIGHT - no droplets - nothing. Its two parts are not machined - the o-ring
> > > > > groove is made by welding two square profiles on a raw flame cut ring. We
> > > > > use 6 by 6 mm profiles and a diam 10 mm oring with a glued connection. No
> > > > > problems ever.
> > > > > The design is made so that water pressure further increses tightness.
> > > > >
> > > > > Doubble orings are worse than single since the pressure that closes the
> > > > > o-ring is shared betvin two
> > > > > orings.
> > > > >
> > > > > The system with two orings was used on pre STS 51 shuttle SRB´s - for leak
> > > > > detection. And look what happened...
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Peter
> > > > >
> > > > > N.B. Same system used on Freya with same result. Total number of tests to
> > > > > this day 1027.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: <MerlinSub@t-online.de>
> > > > > To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 2:00 PM
> > > > > Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Double O-Ring On A Hatch
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Brent this is complete overshoot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the single o-ring fails - little water leak in - thats all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The both metall surfaces should be during manufacturing such flat that you
> > > > > > see no outsiede light from inside the submarine - with you inside in the
> > > > > > dark submarine - and without a o-ring.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have double O-rings only in the drop weight key holder
> > > > > > - a shaft in Pipe system to hold the shaft allways in center.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > best regards Carsten
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Brent Hartwig" <brenthartwig@hotmail.com> schrieb:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Hello Ian,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> A leak detector between the seals is an interesting thought. Perhaps just
> > > > > >> a pressure gage of some sort could be used.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> In regards to to a evenly seated, bottomed out hatch flanges, sealing
> > > > > >> water from getting inside, I would think it would be highly unlikely.
> > > > > >> Since even a small imperfection in a mirror smooth finish, warpage of one
> > > > > >> or both of the flanges, or a piece of sand between the flange surfaces
> > > > > >> would let water in the pressure hull.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Regards,
> > > > > >> Brent Hartwig> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 18:18:46 -0400> From:
> > > > > >> irox@ix.netcom.com> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org> Subject: RE:
> > > > > >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Double O-Ring On A Hatch> > > If both O-rings are the
> > > > > >> same, whatever causes the failure on the> outer ring could also cause the
> > > > > >> failure on the inner ring (and you> have two O-rings to replace instead
> > > > > >> of one). If the inner ring> was stronger/bigger than the outer, then
> > > > > >> maybe, but what would be> the point - unless you had a leak detector
> > > > > >> fitter between the two> to let you know when the outer ring failed?> >
> > > > > >> The O-ring only keeps the water out when you are near the surface.> Once
> > > > > >> the sub is at a certain depth, the water pressure will keep> the metal on
> > > > > >> metal (metal on plastic on metal if you use a gasket)> surfaces well
> > > > > >> sealed.> > If things are failing before their scheduled replace period,
> > > > > >> it's> probably a good idea to inspect/over-haul the sub before using it>
> > > > > >> again (rather than having a system that allows you to continue> to opera!
> > > > > > te the sub when components are knowingly or unknowningly> failing).> >
> > > > > > Ian.> > -----Original Message-----> >From: Brent Hartwig
> > > > > > <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>> >Sent: Aug 8, 2007 1:37 PM> >To:
> > > > > > personal_submersibles@psubs.org> >Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Double
> > > > > > O-Ring On A Hatch> >> >> > > >I have no doubte that single O-Rings are
> > > > > > successful in sub hatches, as well as numerous other applications. One
> > > > > > item I was thinking about, was that if you have two O-Rings in your hatch
> > > > > > flange, of the same thickness as the same hatch with a single O-Ring,
> > > > > > wouldn't you have twice the resistance in the double O-Ring hatch in
> > > > > > keeping the mating flanges from touching (bottoming out). Also some custom
> > > > > > O-Rings are spliced together, and if that outer O-Ring splice fails, you
> > > > > > would have a back-up O-Ring to protect you. If your hatches are machined
> > > > > > correctly, and the outer O-Ring fails by extrusion or cracking from very
> > > > > > cold or hot tempertures, old age and/or manufactures inconsistency in
> > > > > > material o!
> > > > > > r process, then the second O-Ring might work perfectly. Many s!
> > > > > > ubs are
> > > > > > left out in the hot sun, which can get the steel hulls very hot. This can
> > > > > > be hard on plastic and rubber products.> > > >I've seen a number of double
> > > > > > O-Ring designs used in aquarium pump connections and covers. Perhaps this
> > > > > > is better for stopping leaks in lower pressure system, like is used in
> > > > > > most aquaria.> > > >Does anyone here have a story of a hatch O-Ring
> > > > > > failing?> >> >Regards,> >Brent Hartwig> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007
> > > > > > 09:09:02 -0700> From: clientes@tolimared.com> To:
> > > > > > personal_submersibles@psubs.org> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Double
> > > > > > O-Ring On A Hatch> > Hello Oystein,> > Very good link - thanks,> > I see
> > > > > > your point what concerns difference to normal hatches - in fact > i am
> > > > > > considering the model of the scuba gear seal as a model for a > deep
> > > > > > diver - hatch i have in mind - could go to ocean bottom - based > on
> > > > > > concrete spheres...> > In any case the point seems to be that the mecanism
> > > > > > that makes a > o-ring fail is extrusion trough a gap. As long as you avoid
> > > > > > this > properl!
> > > > > > y a o-ring will hold hundereds of bar = thousands of meter of >
> > > > > > waterdepth...> > If you have several rings and a big gap due to deficient
> > > > > > machining - > ALL of them will fail at the same depth.> > In hydraulics
> > > > > > that normally work at that kind of pressure you have all > kind of single
> > > > > > o-rings...> > > Cheers, Wil> > > Quoting Øystein Skarholm
> > > > > > <skarholm@gmail.com>:> > > In scubagear the!> seat for connenction between
> > > > > > tank and the 1st stage is> > spesial in that manner that the oring is in a
> > > > > > deep groove and the 1st stage> > seat goes into this groove, unlike one on
> > > > > > a hatch. Having said that there> > are plenty off hi pressure applications
> > > > > > seald off using single o-ring.> >> >
> > > > > > http://o-ring.info/en/technical%20manual/ERIKS%20-%20Technical%20Manual%20-%20O-Ring%20Sealing%20Principles.pdf>
> > > > > > >> >> >> >> > On 8/8/07, clientes@tolimared.com <clientes@tolimared.com>
> > > > > > wrote:> >>> >> In a scuba gear the first stage - is attached to the tank
> > > > > > with a> >> single O- ring this single o-ring takes!
> > > > > > some 200bar in this> >> configuration - or i am wrong on this!
> > > > > > ? - So i
> > > > > > also see no need of> >> double ring in any application in a submarine.> >>
> > > > > > Cheers, Wil> >>> >> Quoting MerlinSub@t-online.de:> >>> >> > No idear why
> > > > > > they make that.. one is just fine with lower> >> > cost for rings, trench
> > > > > > and paint maintance issue.> >> >> >> > I just pressuries my diverchamber
> > > > > > with a> >> > singel !> o-ring to 32 atmosp..> >> >> >> > Think better one
> > > > > > with bigger!> diamete> r than two smalls.> >> >> >> > best regards
> > > > > > Carsten> >> >> >> > "Brent Hartwig" <brenthartwig@hotmail.com> schrieb:>
> > > > > > >> >>> >> >>> >> >> I finally found a double o-ring on a sub hatch. The
> > > > > > sub on ebay> >> >> right now called the Great Lake's Submarine mentioned
> > > > > > earlier, has> >> >> one. Here is the picture.> >> >>> >> >>
> > > > > > http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&id=4001713&pid=7375620> >> >>> >> >>>
> > > > > > >> >> Regards,> >> >> Brent Hartwig> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
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