Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Yet another "drug" sub captured.

["James Frankland" <james@guernseysubmarine.com>]

Hello Rick.

I'm K 350 building as well.  You can check my progress on my website.  www.guernseysubmarine.com

I have a page on the site where i am trying to put together pictures and details of other 350 projects.   So you can see from there who is doing what.  I only have a few on at the moment, but as i track down people, the page gets better.  So, if you have some pictures you could send me, i would like to include you.  The page is linked from the "other projects" picture on the main page.

Where is "the big island"?  Ah, i see from your mail address.  Hawaii?

Kind regards
JamesF

----- Original Message -----
From: Land N Sea Welding [mailto:landnsea1@hawaiiantel.net]
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 17:14:44 -1000
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Yet another "drug" sub captured.

Hi all,

It's been a long time since I've posted anything.  I am presently building a K-350 on the Big Island and would like to hear from anyone who has built one in the past,  is in the process of building one or owns one but didn't build it.  Please send me your email address with any comments you would like to make.  It would be interesting to know how many are out there and there locations.



Rick


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: James Huffman
  To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
  Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 4:26 PM
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Yet another "drug" sub captured.


  Peter,

  Being polite is understandable.  The u-boats, up untill after the Laconia incident, did wat they could for survivors, from the ships that they sunk.  Not every u-boat did this, but from understanding, most did.  WIth the exception of U-852, u-boats followed the rules of war.  So, I do seperate actions at sea, from what the SS and the Nazi doctor's did in the concentration camps.  Sadly, no one has learned from history.  The Yugoslav Civil War, brought the use of concentration camps again.

  I have seen the pictures of the cold water test.  Very sad what they did.  But, the post war military groups, such as the Coast Guard, did make use of the information from those test.  But unlike the Nazi doctors, the Coast Guard uses the information to saves lives.  You are correct that that medial experiment is not German.  It was a Nazi atrocity.

  Yes the sinking of ships, did cause a high loss of life.  I was unaware that the USA military in WW2 used captured German soilders to clear mine fields.  That is very sad, and also a war crime, uner the laws used at the Nuembeg Trials.  I know of the USS Wahoo, on its third war patrol, machine gunned survivors from a ship that it had sunk, but it did that a year before U-852 did the same thing.  No matter what nation does a war crime, it is very sad that it happens.  It is even more sad when the party involved in the war crime, does not get held accontable for his/her actions.

  I do agree that we all share the guilt.  But knowing history, we should be able to prevent it.  Sadly, people tend to view history as boring or do not care about history.  If we understand history, we can better prevent war crimes and atrocities that happen.

  Best regaurds as well,

  James

  Peter Madsen <peter@submarines.dk> wrote:
    James,


    In writing "Nazi" submarines I simply tried to be polite. In Germany you will typically say that the Nazi?s did this and that - When the German guide in Concentration Camp Sachenhausen shows the tourists piles of human hair and shoes - she does not say - this is "German" industrialized murder - but that the "Nazi?s" did this...so that she avoids being identified with it.

    Today - I saw a picture on wiki - showing a person in a Luftwaffe uniform lying in a bathtub with icebloks around him. He?s is German - but unfortunately also a Jew. With him is two Luftwaffe medical officers - writing down his reactions on paper as he is slowly freezing to death. They measure time vs. body temperature and takes notes when he loses continence and when the heart finaly stops.

    This is not a German medical experiment - this is a Nazi atrocity.

    The submarines of both US, Soviet and German navies killed sailors, civilians and soldiers by the thousand in much the same way ( in the pacific theater death is caused but other effects - but result is the same ) - and for that matter my own beautiful peaceful countrymen enjoyed killing German soldiers AFTER the surrender by using them to clear minefields on the westcost - by forcing them to walk though it.

    In my humble opinion being humans we all share the guilt  - and the capability for war - and atrocities. Its not a German, Soviet or US specialty. Submarines did their gruesome part - and may do it again.
    One US Trident SSBN can destroy a continent in about 15 minutes...and will do so if the President issues the order...I think they have fifteen of those...fantastic machines...

    Best regards, and back to joyrides in homemade subs...

    Peter



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: James Huffman
      To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
      Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 9:21 PM
      Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Yet another "drug" sub captured.


      I agree with you for the most part, how ever, I will disagree with you about the nazi part.  Nazi was just a shorted form of NSDAP, national socialists german workers party.  It was a political party.  So, I do seperate German Navy from nazi's, or nazi navy.  As for the submarines that the German Navy was planning onn building, yes the Type XIX and Type XX were ambitious.  They did end up using the Type IX, as well as the Type XB for cargo.  The Kraka is a very beautiful submarine.  I would be interested in knowing the cost of building the Kraka.  And yes you are correct, that there is no right way to do something that is wrong.

      James


      Peter Madsen <peter@submarines.dk> wrote:
        Sirs,



        Submarine technology have often been used for malice purposes - ranging from anti merchant shipping campaigns during the two world wars to nuclear deterrent during the cold war and today. Bad of cause depends on the view - fact is the submarine comes out very successful in most of these missions and may today be considered one of the most effective navel weapons in existence.

        If the drug smugglers did it right - with real uboats outfitted with diesel electric propulsion - and using snorkels - frankly the transit from south American waters to US waters would be very safe for them - when having the alternatives in mind. Problems arise when on loading and off loading the cargo - but even this has a technical solution.

        I am sure the submarine would serve its master as well as it served the Germans, US Navy and Soviet Red Fleet in its day. Drugs destroys the life of many people - and causes an incredible amount of crime - and I hope those making the profit will be on trail - but like the in the case of the
        Nazi?s I am impressed with the audacity that they display by trying to build an functional long range
        smuggling boat, while I hope for their defeat...

        One more reason - that I am surprised that the highest bid for Kraka until now is 100 US $
        It can take 500 kg cargo - it can do the transit submerged and or snorkeling and can be outfitted for long range... : o) and would be a fine iron coffin if anything went wrong...

        There is no way to do something that is wrong in the right way...

        Regards...

        Peter


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