Brent
Earthing out
to the Hull can also cause “extreme electrolytic corrosion” to
that hull.
Steve
-----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jay K. Jeffries
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2007 11:32
AM
To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Battery Safety Issues
Brent,
Referring once again to a number of publications concerning
submersible safety, they all call for a floating ground, i.e. no electrical
connections to the hull.
R/Jay
Respectfully,
Jay K. Jeffries
Andros Is., Bahamas
A skimmer afloat is but a submarine, so poorly
built it will not plunge.
From:
owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]
On Behalf Of Brent Hartwig
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:02
PM
To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Battery Safety Issues
James,
You bring up a point I was thinking about with regards to
grounding the batteries to the sub. Most paints don't have much if any
electrical insulating properties, so the electrical charge, if it's AC power,
would just migrate through the hull and then out to the surrounding water,
and then into the ground, right? If it's DC power then it's just going to keep
mostly to it's self between the negative and positive points or leads? So
what I'm getting at is that if a sub is built with syntactic foam and/or a
heavy coating of Rhino liner type coating, (of which one or both are likely
to be good electrical insulators) on the interior of
the sub, wouldn't the AC power then have a harder time getting out of the
sub, unless the power systems were grounded to the sub, so the power can get
out easier? I was just thinking that if the power has to leave through
the area where the leak is, and/or through the open hatch, or which your trying
to leave through, you would get a real nasty or deadly shock. Especially since
allot of leaks are jumped on by the operator(s) of the sub, to fix them.
> From: lil_brother_llc@bellsouth.net
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Safety Issues
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 14:07:56 -0500
>
> Joe,
>
> I think that is a somewhat different type of issue. Remember that AC
doesn't
> require much to shock you. Just providing a path to ground (earth) will
get
> you shocked. On the other hand DC will only shock you when you provide a
> path to it's opposing pole.
>
> I can see why you wouldn't want your shore power energized when cleaning
the
> bottom on your boat. A/C is sometimes "leaky"(motor cases, pump
cases, etc.)
> and the leak would be finding it's shortest path to ground(earth). If you
> got it that path......it would be a bad thing(depending on the current
> present). I refrain from working with A/C as much as possible.....but
there
> are cases A/C is the best method.
>
> Being in a psub filled with water (with submerged batteries) wouldn't be a
> joy ride, but I don't think it would be much more than a tingling
sensation.
> I don't think you would be worried much about the tingling sensation
anyway.
> You would have more important things on your mind. But I also would try to
> have my power leads pretty close to each other.....not separated on each
> side of the hull. But the design requirements for most electrical systems
> will have the lead close anyway.......wouldn't be much use if they were
not
> connected to the same system. Also...I wouldn't connect my hull to the
> negative side (as most craft are...like cars).......could present a
problem.
>
>
> James Long
> Owner/Designer
> Lil Brother LLC (Instrument Division)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph Perkel" <joeperkel@hotmail.com>
> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 1:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Safety Issues
>
>
>
> James,
>
> Thank you for the info. I remember reading an article once with respect to
a
> "zone" while cleaning your boat bottom dockside. I cannot
remember the
> details, or why it was an issue, something regarding stray shore power
> currents.
>
> In any case, I will look over the electrical details from a safety
> perspective in great detail.
>
> Joe
>
> >From: "Lil Brother LLC"
<lil_brother_llc@bellsouth.net>
> >Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Safety Issues
> >Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 12:27:37 -0500
> >
> >Joe/Brent,
> >
> >Yes...you will get some shocking effect, but it will not be severe.
The
> >kill
> >zone with the battery submerged (or breaker box) will be in-between
the
> >positive and negative poles of the battery/connection.
> >
> >Remember there are underwater welders that deal with this all the
time. It
> >is an uncomfortable thing to do....but is not life threatening, until
you
> >enter the kill zone.
> >
> >James Long
> >Owner/Designer
> >Lil Brother LLC (Instrument Division)
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Joseph Perkel" <joeperkel@hotmail.com>
> >To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:03 AM
> >Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Safety Issues
> >
> >
> >Brent,
> >
> >This is one of those issues in the "back of my mind" as
well. I figured to
> >delve in further at the proper time but, perhaps someone can
elaborate.
> >
> >Joe
> >
> >
> > >From: Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
> > >Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > >To: PSUBSorg <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Safety Issues
> > >Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 21:22:09 -0700
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >If you have one or more batteries in the pressure hull with you,
and not
> >in
> > >a sealed off area, how do you keep from being electrocuted, if
the inner
> > >hull floods? Will not the batteries short out in fresh water, and
even
> >more
> > >so in saltwater? I would love to be enlightened. ; )' Perhaps
someone
> > >else wants and/or needs to know as well.
> > >
> > >Even if the batteries are in pods, or another hull section, will
not the
> > >breaker box cause and other wire cause your trouble?
> > >
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >Brent Hartwig
> > >
> > > " I kind of like doing the impossible. "
> > >
> > > ~ Walt Disney
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>************************************************************************
>
>************************************************************************
> >************************************************************************
> >The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
> >CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database
> >because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive
messages
> >from our organization.
> >
> >If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
> >link below or send a blank email message to:
> >removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >
> >Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
> >automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
> >our server receiving your request.
> >
> >PSUBS.ORG
> >PO Box 53
> >Weare, NH 03281
> >603-529-1100
>
>************************************************************************
> >************************************************************************
>
>************************************************************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>************************************************************************
> >************************************************************************
>
>************************************************************************
> >The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
> >CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database
> >because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive
messages
> >from our organization.
> >
> >If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
> >link below or send a blank email message to:
> > removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >
> >Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
> >automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
> >our server receiving your request.
> >
> >PSUBS.ORG
> >PO Box 53
> >Weare, NH 03281
> >603-529-1100
>
>************************************************************************
>
>************************************************************************
>
>************************************************************************
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
> CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database
> because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
> from our organization.
>
> If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
> link below or send a blank email message to:
> removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>
> Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
> automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
> our server receiving your request.
>
> PSUBS.ORG
> PO Box 53
> Weare, NH 03281
> 603-529-1100
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
> CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database
> because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
> from our organization.
>
> If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
> link below or send a blank email message to:
> removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>
> Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
> automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
> our server receiving your request.
>
> PSUBS.ORG
> PO Box 53
> Weare, NH 03281
> 603-529-1100
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
>