RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Comparing subs...

["Jon Wallace" <jon@psubs.org>]

This is something that I've thought of as well, particularly from the aspect
of standards/guidelines.  For example, one of the projects we have in the
works is a PSUBS standards/guidelines document that covers design,
construction, and operation.  One of the classification ideas I had was that
it could be tied to the percentage of adopted standards.

Complies with 100% of standards - Class A Sub
Complies with 80% of standards - Class B Sub
Complies with 60% of standards - Class C Sub
Complies with 40% of standards - Class D Sub
Complies with 20% of standards - Class E Sub
Less than 20% compliance - no rating

The nice thing about this structure is that a rating does not remain
permanent.  As more standards are adopted, or as standards change,
submersibles who want to stay within the same classification would need to
keep up with the updated standards.  Sort of like building codes in the
United States.  Houses built in the 1950's were built to a certain code.  If
you want to add a new room, you have to build it (and perhaps modify the
rest of the house) to existing building codes.

After some further thinking about this, I determined that using standards
alone would not suffice.  So perhaps in conjunction with another method
something would be possible.  My thoughts overall are that a rating or
classing system would be beneficial to the recreational community.  However,
the system cannot be arbitrary or capricious and must be based on some
criteria that makes sense for recreational subs.

One of the issues that I see with Peter's suggestion, is that a small
one-person sub like Sgt. Pepper could be built to achieve a deeper depth
than a sub that holds two or three people.  For example, make a Sgt. Pepper
sized sub with a 1 inch thick hull, and you'll go a lot deeper than a
Euronaut sized sub built out of 1/4 inch thick hull.  So I don't think
classification can be determined based simply upon the number of crew or the
physical dimensions of the sub alone.  That merely takes into account size,
and not safety or operational conditions.  We would need to adopt a unifying
set of criteria that could be applied to any sub design that someone was
capable of building.

Jon




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Perkel
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:45 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Comparing subs...


Peter,

....I like it!

The only organization in a position to entertain this is PSUBS.org. If
willing and it were adopted, I would engrave it on my manufacturers plate.

Joe


>From: "Peter Madsen" <peter@submarines.dk>
>Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Comparing subs...
>Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:42:14 +0200
>
>Hi psubbers,
>
>
>Sometimes people ask me how many psubs exist in the world and if they are
>like ours, bigger or smaller - if others dive as deep as we do - (answer: -
>yes others go much deeper ! )
>
>I my opinion - what matters when answering questions is to give people a
>frank - simple explanation - just seeing a psub is quite a chock to
>most...so I dont go into safety factors in peacetime vs wartime ect...or
>any other nonsense.
>
>On diving depth I tell two data - how deep we actually do dive, and how
>deep we have calculated that we expect catastrophic failure to occur. I
>typically add that most fun is at less than ten meter to sort of excuse the
>fact that our canoes are shallow diving ships - less than spacecrafts for
>the abyss...
>
>At our convention in Copenhagen during 2006 some told people visiting us
>how deep they did indeed dive, and some how deep they had calculated that
>they could dive...giving a sort of misleading picture...
>
>Sometimes in have been thinking of an A B C D and so on classification
>system for Psubs. In this -
>an "A" boat would be something like Sgt. Peppers - one person - electric
>only. A "B" boat would be like Nemo or K250 / K350 - a two seat with
>electric only propulsion. A "C" boat would be a small diesel-electric boat
>for two or more people like NR-1 ( Joe´s model ) or like Kraka. Finely a
>"D" class boat would be Euronaut, Platypus, or UC3 - big diesel boats with
>multi person crews and open sea capacity. Of cause - there is lots of fun
>in subdividing this into "DAIP" - for AIP propelled D boats or AH for human
>propelled A boats.
>
>All of cause most for fun - and when somebody is telling you that he is
>building a ultra light submarine at just 400 kg with sixty cubic meters
>volume...and fuel cell propulsion - you can say that that´s fine - its a
>DAIP class - that has never been build before...
>
>Its interesting to see that most - almost all psubs are B class - most
>likely this is the best for a private individual - and the very few A,C and
>D boats exist outside the mind or PC of its owner. In fact - the only
>operational D boat ever deployed was a Dutch gastank named "Spurdog" that
>with the aid of a bulk of ballast and some tanks could be dived at shallow
>water - with a number of people inside. It did not have any means of
>underwater propulsion to my knowledge. However - it furfills the difinition
>- with is 60 ton hull and dieselmotor is must have been seagoing...more or
>less...
>
>Just some thoughts...
>
>Have a nice day,
>
>Peter




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