[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cliffs - R300
Hi Brady,
Do you have any pictures of your K350, I would love to see
some? Also, being a bit of K350 fan and I'm very interested what the improvements to the K350 ballast are. Care to share?
Thanks,
Ian.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Brady Burkhart <braydeebee@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Jul 21, 2007 8:33 PM
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cliffs - R300
>
>Wait a minute I know who you are!! You were in Pat's group but you called yourself "Szybowski." You were always arguing whack ideas with everybody and then you disappeared. That explains a lot.
>
> FYI, I have all the messages from Pat's group including yours. I went back and read what he said. Dude you're talking about a man who has been sharing his knowledge about submarines for something like 30 years and he still is. He said in all that time most of the people he's ever seen ask for information never did anything with it and I agree. From what I've seen on every forum I've ever read, most people see submarines like a passing fancy they amuse themselves with for a while and then they move on to something else. That's not being "negative" it's just reality.
>
> I see Pat as a doer not a talker. I couldn't fault him if he had to spend his time working rather than answering the same questions over and over again for people who mainly just want to gawk and gab but the fact is he hasn't stopped sharing information. I was talking to him last week and he showed me how to improve the ballast setup on my K350. In all the years I've been reading about K350s nobody ever mentioned the improvements I got from Pat. In my experience he is a walking encyclopedia of submarines and if he knows you are sincere he will help you.
>
> But yeah "szybowski" I remember you made a fool of yourself in Pat's group and now you are over here imitating his clever phrases and talking about him. One problem with all groups like these is they attract those who pit one group against the other. That isn't cool and doesn't help any of us who are real about building submarines. This rap shouldn't be happening there. I'm embarrassed at getting drawn into this and I apologize to the Psubs group. If you have anything else to say about this you should take it offline.
>
>
>
> Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Brady,
> My Bad, I have checked Pats forum from time to time and had not seen any thing new since March of this year. Pat shut down the archive so no body could read the old postings. I had hoped to learn a thing or two from reading the archive. The last few posting on the forum, Pat was being very negative and telling everybody basically how they were wasting his time, and that people that were asking him about how to build there own sub, would never likely do so. I've seen a huge surge of sub building in this group in the last year, and it's invigorating.
> There are those out there that believe they are above and beyond the PSUB's group, and perhaps in some areas they are. How ever I'll bet even the most advanced minds in this group have learned a fair amount from being involved in this list. Besides they learned there knowledge and skills from other experts and a lot of hard work in the past. I have much to learn from this group, and in return I try to find data that the group can use. Being skilled and confident in what one does, are attractive traits, arrogance and excessive ego is not.
> In regards to gas engines, I plan to use a Bombardier, Rotax engine in a separate 1ATM pressure hull.
> Regards,
> Brent Hartwig
>
>"Iron rusts from disuse, stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; so does inaction sap the vigor's of the mind."
> - Leonardo da Vinci
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>From: Brady Burkhart <braydeebee@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cliffs - R300
>Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 04:20:16 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
> Yo Brent, Pat's forum isn't "dead." He's busy with his Nautilus and diving helmets but we're all still communicating.
>
> I hear you about the noise and dangers of a gas engine in a small sub. You might expect that a guy as savvy as Pat Regan thought about that a long time ago. All I'll say is his way of coping with them is just fully sick!!! 8^)) I'm not sure if he would mind me talking about that in detail. I could Email him and see what he says.
>
> At the end of the day I can't say noise and fire are impossible obstacles for everyone. Doc Rowe has gas engines in his Bionic Dolphins and Regan had a working closed circuit engine something like twenty years ago. As for me I am just a carpenter building a K350 so batteries and motors are as wild as I get. I hear what you both are saying and
>I wouldn't dare to try an engine either. But then I'm not Pat Regan or Doc Rowe.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Brady
>
> Cliff Redus <cliffordredus@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>DIV
>{margin:0px;}
>
> Brent,
>
>There are some novel aspects of the design. After I have some flight time under my belt, I will be able to comment more on what has worked well and what has not. One of my earlier designs was a hybrid with same electric motor and drive train I am now using and a diesel for surface ops. For this first boat, I abandoned the diesel for space reasons and to simplify the design. If I ever scaled the boat up, I might
>reconsider as it would extend the range. I personally would not consider a two or four stroke gasoline engine for surface operations because of the safety issues associate with gasoline vapors in a confined space. As requested, I have added a few pics to the frappr site of the plug and split molds. Go to the frappr link and hit more Cliff Redus' photos and page down until you see the plug and split mold pics.
>
>http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&id=2664457&pid=4280217&myphotos=1
>The FRP components I used for both the split molds and the actual boat shell were:
>
>Resin, GP Polyester Laminating Resin, Aropol L65305-T27 Resin, North American Composites
>Catalyst, Nor Norox MEKP-9 Catalyst, North American Composites
>Poly vinyl alcohol (PVA), Rex #10 partall
>Green -5 gal PVA, North American Composites
>White Gel coat, Hydroshield Lite White Gel Coat, 50# pail, North American Composites
>
>This resign and catalyst worked well for my FRP layup work and I did not have any problems with the gel coat blistering. I think a low viscosity vinyl ester resin would work ok as well.
>
>Do you think the epoxy resin you used to bind your micro and macrospheres together, bonded well with the the inside of the outer fiberglass hull? I
>
>It bonded very well. I used a epoxy resin that had a slow exothermic reaction and low viscosity to prevent cracking and facilitated pouring the syntactic foam into the space between the steel pressure hull (coated with imron) and the inside of the FRP shell. You can now take a hammer and bang it against the side of the boat and it sound very solid. It needed to be solid as the two ton boat rest on the trai! ler at
>only 7 points where the rollers are located.
>
>I didn't see any main seams on your outer hull. I would venture to guess that you made it in two halves, top and bottom respectively, and then bonded them together.
>
>The split mold was in four parts (longitudinal quadrants) and the FRP shell was in two halves, top and bottom as you say and bonded together.
>
>How did you center and attach the outer hull to the inner hull in preparation for filling the annulus space with syntactic foam? I didn't see much in the way of connection flanges on the steel inner pressure hull, to attach the outer fiberglass hull too.
>
>The FRP shell had flanges that enclosed the hatch, this centralized the top of shell near the hatch. The bottom of the shell had a cutout and flange for the drop weight cavity. This centralized the bottom half of the shell. I bolted the split mold with the FRP shell parts layed up inside
>around the pressure hull after I broke off the plug mold. The flanges on the split mold gave the assembly enough rigidity to keep everything where it was supposed to be during the syntactic foam casting process.
>
>You made a pretty boat, but you already knew that, didn't you.
>
>With so many beautiful and elegant marine life shapes to to use as models ( orka, tuna, sharks...), my goal was to try and incorporate some of their clean curves into the shape . The process was however tedious.
>
>
>Cliff
>
> ----- Original Message ----
>From: Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org; brenthartwig@hotmail.com
>Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:27:37 PM
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cliffs -
>R300
>
> I second that,
> I've read allot about using a jet ski type squirt drive in Pat Regan's now dead forum. But it's great to see one that is just about ready to fully test. As I recall Pat was using an older Kawasaki Jet Ski squirt drive powered by a Kawasaki two stroke motor, when on the surface for his mini Nautilus. The parts came out of a Kawasaki Jet Ski used in the movie Water World that was filmed mostly off the Big Island of Hawaii. Then for submerged running, a battery powered Minn Kota motor with it's own prop is used. I wouldn't want to be stuck in that small of a hull with a two stroke motor running for all the noise. The motor might be able to be walled off, and one of the good exhaust silencers that are now used on ATV's installed.
> The articulating rear control surfaces on the R300 is also pretty
>rare to see on PSUBs from what I've seen. I last saw it being used on the Nessa Sub, but with the prop being attached to the end of the assembly, instead of the outlet of a squirt drive and control surfaces. I've been working on a couple of PSUB designs for a couple of years now that have some cross over with those two designs used on the R300. So I hope to learn from your trials and success if you don't mind Cliff.
> http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&id=2628470&pid=6983195
> Cliff do you have any more pics of the molds, and the lay-up of the molds you used to make the final fiberglass outer hull? What type of resin did you use for the molds and the final hull? I've been planning on using a low viscosity Vinyl Ester resin like, Hydrex 33253 and infusion molding the final parts. I want to use this type of Vinyl
>Ester resin so it will bond well will my Vinyl Ester based gel coat, to prevent blistering.
> Do you think the epoxy resin you used to bind your micro and macrospheres together, bonded well with the the inside of the outer fiberglass hull? I didn't see any main seams on your outer hull. I would venture to guess that you made it in two halves, top and bottom respectively, and then bonded them together. How did you center and attach the outer hull to the inner hull in preparation for filling the annulus space with syntactic foam? I didn't see much in the way of connection flanges on the steel inner pressure hull, to attach the outer fiberglass hull too.
> You made a pretty boat, but you already knew that, didn't you.
> Best Regards,
> Brent Hartwig
>
> "If you don't have a vision, then your reality will always be determined by other's perceptions."
> - Melanëe Addison
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>From: Brent
>Shaw <drydivenz@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cliffs - R300
>Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:44:45 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>Cliff
>>
>>Excellent to see someone thinking outside the square
>>and taking on the challange of designing and building
>>something that isn't or hasn't been proven in the
>>past.
>>
>>Brent - nz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>>Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>************************************************************************
>>************************************************************************
>>************************************************************************
>>The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
>>CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database
>>because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
>>from our organization.
>>
>>If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
>>link below or send a blank email message to:
>> removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>
>>Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
>>automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
>>our server
>receiving your request.
>>
>>PSUBS.ORG
>>PO Box 53
>>Weare, NH 03281
>>603-529-1100
>>************************************************************************
>>************************************************************************
>>************************************************************************
>>
>
>
>************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages from our organization. If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the link below or send a blank email message to:
>removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an automated process and should be complete within five minutes of our server receiving your request. PSUBS.ORG PO Box 53 Weare, NH 03281 603-529-1100 ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
> Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.
>
>
>
>************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages from our organization. If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the link below or send a blank email message to: removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an automated process and should be complete within five minutes of our server receiving your request. PSUBS.ORG PO Box 53 Weare, NH 03281 603-529-1100 ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
>Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database
because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
from our organization.
If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
link below or send a blank email message to:
removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
our server receiving your request.
PSUBS.ORG
PO Box 53
Weare, NH 03281
603-529-1100
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************