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Re: Euronaut progress was [PSUBS-MAILIST] Diver lockout VBT
"Peter Madsen" <peter@submarines.dk> schrieb:
> Carsten,
>
>
> You are a fan of stainless steel I know. I am sure you have made every
> precaustion to get your sea water tubes welded in a corrosion ressistent
> way - meaning that you use minimum AISI 316 or higher alloy ( you will like
> to have lots molybdenum in it ) and that care has been taken to flood the
> tubes prior to welding with argon. After welding you will like to treat it
> with strong nitric acid with hydrofluoric acid in it.
Yes 1.4571 the good one..
And yes, we close the pipes and freshwater and
wastewatertanks with tape and fill them with gas before welding..
All pipe work is done by a profesional WIG (TIG) welder.
After building the boats interior nearly to ready - maybe end of the year - all the interior will be build out ! Than the pressure hull will be sandblasted from inside and get all layer of coatings within a week or two.
During this time all the outbuild stainless pipes will be work with acid, all aluminium from the wall and floor will be anodised.
Later during build in again all the stainless frameing will be seperate by the aluminum plating by rubber or plastic tape.
Note that no seawter pipes are inside the sub and all exterior seawaterpipes are on top of the pressure hull and below the superstructur - means in general condition (harbour 99% of the time) high and dry - inside and outside of the pipe.
See you ! Best regards Carsten
And I still looking for a GRP boat or just a hull such strong that I can not destroy it on 1-2 meter high waves and with 25-30 knots speed runs. Any idear which bransd is useful for my next "Tender to Euronaut"?
b.r. Carsten
> This is most for the sake of others considering stainless steal for
> submarines - its corrosion mechanism is very complex, and using it in
> seawater calls for very professional methods. Unlike low carbon steal that
> has its well-known set of problems stainless may look good over 99 % of a
> surface and then suddenly fail and corrode extreme at one spot. This spot
> forms an anode ( like a zinc anode ) and "takes all the blame" from the rest
> of the structure.
>
> I have made repeated service on a "stainless" pump test stand at
> Technological Institute of Denmark. It runs with tap water and has a couple
> of thousands of holes that I repair once a year. Good for my business...tap
> water corrodes stainless like acid...in the right oxygen free inviroment.
>
> Have a nice day - and don't worry. Good to hear you are making progres. Bye
> an ex- tugboat - it will be much more usefull for your of shore needs than
> anything made in mold from plastic.
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MerlinSub@t-online.de>
> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 1:55 PM
> Subject: Euronaut progress was [PSUBS-MAILIST] Diver lockout VBT
>
>
> > Hi Vance,
> >
> > we just install today the diesel pipe system and the fuel-trim-pump.
> > Diesel system should be more or less ready in some 14 days.
> > Next step will be the bilge drainge - pump system.
> > All pipe work is done in stainless steel most in the range of 1" to 2"
> > size.
> >
> > Diver chamber is ready assambeld now. Will get a water filled
> > 320 meter (1000 feet)pressure test in the next weeks to get fully
> > operable.
> > Will see if I have after the test one boat or two..
> >
> > 24 Volt generator will be installed next time also. Is under construction.
> >
> > But progress is slower than in former years so the Euronaut will be not
> > in the water in 2007 - hopefully in 2008.
> >
> > But I hope to run the diesel this year.
> >
> > But for today I am out -looking for a new second hand motorboat. Destroy
> > my old one during bad weather some weeks ago in the North Sea - off the
> > frisians..
> >
> > What is with your K ?
> >
> > Best regards Carsten
> >
> >
> > <vbra676539@aol.com> schrieb:
> >> Speaking of which, when do we get to go play off the Frisians? Vance
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: MerlinSub@t-online.de
> >> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >> Sent: Sat, 26 May 2007 4:43 pm
> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Diver lockout VBT
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Vance, allright :-)
> >> I prefer for a small psub say for 2-3 people with a diver exit hatch that
> >> the
> >> ub is at anchor or on legs. I decide for my boat that anchor will be
> >> better
> >> ecause legs catch a lot of drag and if the tide switch - the boat is
> >> maybe in
> >> he wrong direction - and get the currents from the side for example. I
> >> think a
> >> ood (!) anchor system will be better in currents. The boat swings in the
> >> right
> >> irection like a airship on a mast.
> >> But you are absolut right:
> >> he system is better if the anchor is heavier and the hard tank bigger. So
> >> a
> >> sub designed for look out mission at anchor should have two drop
> >> weights - one
> >> n the bow (the anchor and chain) and the other in the stern area to
> >> release.
> >> ay 20 % of this psubs weight is ballast weight - that means in Kraka 7
> >> tons
> >> ize that 1,4 ts ballast or a 700 kg (abt.1500 pound) for the maximum
> >> anchor
> >> ize. If this boat has filled his anchor-compensating-tank (in general the
> >> orward hard tank) with 350 KG additional water it needs 350 Kg force in
> >> one or
> >> he other direction - a lot for a tiny small 7ts boat.
> >> Ps.: Euronauts anchor and the chain is designed to be drop in emergency
> >> also.
> >> best regards Carsten
> >>
> >> vbra676539@aol.com> schrieb:
> >> Carsten,
> >>
> >> Yes, of course it works. Most diving bells and ARMS bells operate this
> >> way.
> >> hey have a clump weight on a wire/winch arangement, which can be set on
> >> the
> >> ottom. Then a winch can run the bell up or down from underneath for fine
> >> djustment. The bell is strongly positive above the clump, so that divers
> >> and
> >> quipment leaving the bell do not affect its position. Or, they ballast
> >> heavy
> >> nd hang on their tether at a predetermined depth. Your drawing is a
> >> version of
> >> he former, except bells don't use VBT systems. In addition, the clump
> >> weight on
> >> ells runs about ten to twenty per cent of displacement (ie., approaching
> >> a ton)
> >> hich would be quite a load for a free swimming, psub style submersible.
> >>
> >> The comment about X-boats is invalidated by history. Modern lockout
> >> boats were
> >> to 20+ tons all up, depending on the vehicle. Deep Diver, the originator
> >> of
> >> odern lockout diving (with proper credos to Simon Lake) weighed 8.25 tons
> >> riginally and Taurus, the largest, weighs 24 tons. The X-craft weighed
> >> 27-tons,
> >> nd were a testament to their designers, builders and operators. When you
> >> get
> >> hat heavy, the vessel is substantially less prone to abrupt vertical
> >> transients
> >> ue to what must be considered minor trim changes compared to overall
> >> isplacement. Plus, the X-craft flooded the dive chamber, transferring
> >> trim
> >> ater to do so and keeping the whole thing internal, an important
> >> consideration
> >> or their mission profile. There was no much of a safe haven there for the
> >> ivers, who drowned with alarming regularity both in training and on the
> >> job, or
> >> urfaced and had their heads shot off. The real issue was stealth, and
> >> they went
> >> o great lengths to achieve it.
> >>
> >> Luckily, we don't have the Tirpitz to worry about anymore. And, our
> >> references these days is for a dry chamber. The Brits couldn't use that
> >> because
> >> o do so would require the release of large volumes of air while venting
> >> to
> >> tmospheric pressure. Stealthy mid-water submersibles would raise the Navy
> >> and
> >> epublican ire in this country, too, as they are likely to take a dim view
> >> of
> >> nyone sneaking under their battleships.
> >>
> >> Vance
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: MerlinSub@t-online.de
> >> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >> Sent: Sat, 26 May 2007 11:59 am
> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Diver lockout VBT
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I made a drawing to explain my words..
> >> www.euronaut.org/content/upload/notes/AnchorandExit001.jpg
> >> Note - I study the x-craft
> >> X-craft have many troubles - mostly electric.
> >> ut the diver exit in mid water works.
> >> :-) best regards Carsten
> >>
> >> MerlinSub@t-online.de> schrieb:
> >> I forgot something. The trunk is below the hatch. I can close the hatch
> >> with
> >>
> >> ry chamber any time. Dosen't matter how the waterlevel in the trunk is.
> >>
> >> Anchor underwater is simple - just make the boats forward hard tank
> >> heavy
> >> ith
> >> he weight of the anchor. Euronauts anchor is a simple lead bell with 488
> >> ound.
> >> > Boat is than still neutral but anchor is than with 488 pounds in the
> >> mud..
> >> Realy havy currents are may a problem.
> >>
> >> best regards Carsten
> >>
> >>
> >> <MerlinSub@t-online.de> schrieb:
> >> > Gentlemens..
> >> >
> >> > The diver exit on Euronaut is on the bottom of the diver chamber.
> >> > And has a exit trunk below it.
> >> >
> >> > If a diver has ready to dive a density of say 1 - there is no
> >> compensating
> >> ystem required except this trunk.
> >> >
> >> > Say volume of the diver is 1 something and remaining air volume of
> >> the
> >> hamber is 10 something. Air pressure is equal to outside pressure and
> >> hatch is
> >> > pen.
> >> >
> >> > If the Diver leave the chamber the free air volume in the chamber
> >> increase
> >> o 11 - right ? - But that means that the air or gas pressure goes down -
> >> and
> >> he water from outside climb a little into the trunk until the chamber
> >> volume
> >> ithout the diver is back to 10 - right ?
> >> >
> >> > The water which climbs into the short trunk has also a density of 1 -
> >> ecause the diver is neutral in the water - so boat is allways
> >> compensate.
> >> >
> >> > Euronaut trunk is such high that three divers can leave the chamber
> >> before
> >> ater climb into the chamber..
> >> >
> >> > Keep it simple.. :-)
> >> >
> >> > The chain is only there to compensate small differences in water
> >> density
> >> nd
> >> emperature and other small items to compensate - not to compensate a
> >> diver
> >> xit
> >>
> >> >
> >> > The boat is on anchor during diver exit about one divers high over
> >> the
> >> eabottom - The anchor is 400 pounds heavy.. and the hardtank on top of
> >> the
> >> nchor system is flooded to this 400 pound to make the anchor 400 pound
> >> heavy.
> >> >
> >> > best regards Carsten
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "irox" <irox@ix.netcom.com> schrieb:
> >> > >
> >> > > I don't think 170-200lbs object leaving the sub would be
> >> > > negligible, the sub would float off with out it. Carsten
> >> > > suggested a neat way of dealing with that, having a heavy
> >> > > chain resting on the sea floor attached to the sub, when I
> >> > > diver gets out, the sub gets lighter and lifts a link or two
> >> > > off the sea bed. Search the archives for Carsten's original
> >> > > email about this system.
> >> > >
> >> > > Cheers,
> >> > > Ian.
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > >From: Rob Bryan <Sundiver2000@earthlink.net>
> >> > > >Sent: May 25, 2007 12:46 PM
> >> > > >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org,
> >> underseacolonies@yahoogroups.com
> >> > > >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Diver lockout VBT
> >> > > >
> >> > > >I've no experience with sub lockouts. I would think lockouts while
> >> > > >hovering would be very difficult and dangerous, so assuming
> >> sitting on
> >> > > >the bottom...
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Getting in and out of a vertical hatch with gear on is quite a
> >> task,
> >> > > >whether scuba or line (with a bailout). In dive bell lockouts, the
> >> bell
> >> > > >is flooded a little to make it easier. Wouldn't you do that in a
> >> sub
> >> > > >lock out? So if the lock was 48" in diameter and you only flooded
> >> it up
> >> > > >a foot, that would be 800 lbs. The diver leaving would be
> >> negligible,
> >> > > >no? (this doesn't even include any trunk volume). Is this actually
> >> a
> >> > > >problem?
> >> > > >Rob B
> >> > > >
> >> > > >ShellyDalg@aol.com wrote:
> >> > > >> Hi. This is in response to the diver weight compensation
> >> question.
> >> > > >> Every dive trip in your sub requires careful measurement of what
> >> you
> >> > > >> bring on-board.
> >> > > >> If the dive plan calls for a diver to exit the sub while at
> >> depth, I
> >> > > >> would think that it would be better to add buoyancy to cover the
> >> > > >> divers extra weight while on-board, and then dump that buoyancy
> >> ( air
> >> > > >> bubble ) when the diver exits the sub, there-by maintaining
> >> neutral
> >> > > >> buoyancy while the diver is outside.
> >> > > >> When the diver is back on-board, blow the required amount of air
> >> back
> >> > > >> into the trim tank ( a measured amount of water to compensate
> >> for
> >> > > >> exactly how much the diver weighs ) and again maintaining
> >> neutral
> >> > > >> buoyancy.
> >> > > >> A sub with a diver lock-out function would need a bigger trim
> >> tank
> >> > > >> than a sub without that capability.
> >> > > >> Don't forget to calculate how much air the diver displaces with
> >> his
> >> > > >> body, as this will figure into the required additional buoyancy
> >> too.
> >> > > >> You don't need a separate pump system, nor would that be
> >> desirable, to
> >> > > > >> let a diver exit and re-enter the sub. The lock-out chamber is
> >> > > >> controlled by air pressure, and any small amount of water that
> >> > > >> remained within would be easily compensated for by the
> >> additional trim
> >> > > > >> tank volume.
> >> > > >> You WILL need some means of dumping the air from the lock-out
> >> chamber
> >> > > >> once the water is blown out and the hatch is closed so the diver
> >> is
> >> > > >> once again at one atmosphere. This needs to be monitored
> >> closely so a
> >> > > > >> diver has time to dump the excess nitrogen absorbed by his body
> >> > > >> tissues and blood. A diver lock-out chamber is really much like
> >> a
> >> > > >> de-compression chamber, but is located inside another chamber
> >> ( the
> >> > > >> sub's pressure hull ) so a compressor to drive out the
> >> additional air
> >> > > >> is required.
> >> > > >> Frank D.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > >
> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > >> See what's free at AOL.com
> >> > > >> <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
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