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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Diver lockout VBT



Sirs,

I just wish to add - that what Carsten writes below is confirmed in practice with divers on Kraka - when someone goes out the volume inside the boat remains constant since water in the bottom hatch well rises with the divers volume. Ergo no trim difference.

We have had one situation where I blew out the water in the well causing a very interesting involuntarily rice to surface. It happened because on a mud seabed we could not get very negative bouant - our "landing gear" would sink down. We played at less than 10 meters - no diver bends problems - but in a deep dive this would be extremely dangerous. The boat simply surfaced very slowly...I am sure this is not ever happening...but imagine a CSSX helium tri mix diver at 175 meters leaving the boat - and up it goes - leaving him with a few problems back down. But - this I am sure never happens - due to carstens carefull design and operation.

Best regards

Peter Madsen



----- Original Message ----- From: <MerlinSub@t-online.de>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Diver lockout VBT


Gentlemens..

The diver exit on Euronaut is on the bottom of the diver chamber.
And has a exit trunk below it.

If a diver has ready to dive a density of say 1 - there is no compensating system required except this trunk.

Say volume of the diver is 1 something and remaining air volume of the chamber is 10 something. Air pressure is equal to outside pressure and hatch is open.

If the Diver leave the chamber the free air volume in the chamber increase to 11 - right ? - But that means that the air or gas pressure goes down - and the water from outside climb a little into the trunk until the chamber volume without the diver is back to 10 - right ?

The water which climbs into the short trunk has also a density of 1 - because the diver is neutral in the water - so boat is allways compensate.

Euronaut trunk is such high that three divers can leave the chamber before water climb into the chamber..

Keep it simple.. :-)

The chain is only there to compensate small differences in water density and temperature and other small items to compensate - not to compensate a diver exit !

The boat is on anchor during diver exit about one divers high over the seabottom - The anchor is 400 pounds heavy.. and the hardtank on top of the anchor system is flooded to this 400 pound to make the anchor 400 pound heavy.

best regards Carsten


"irox" <irox@ix.netcom.com> schrieb:

I don't think 170-200lbs object leaving the sub would be
negligible, the sub would float off with out it.  Carsten
suggested a neat way of dealing with that, having a heavy
chain resting on the sea floor attached to the sub, when I
diver gets out, the sub gets lighter and lifts a link or two
off the sea bed.  Search the archives for Carsten's original
email about this system.

Cheers,
 Ian.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Rob Bryan <Sundiver2000@earthlink.net>
>Sent: May 25, 2007 12:46 PM
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org, underseacolonies@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Diver lockout VBT
>
>I've no experience with sub lockouts. I would think lockouts while
>hovering would be very difficult and dangerous, so assuming sitting on
>the bottom...
>
>Getting in and out of a vertical hatch with gear on is quite a task,
>whether scuba or line (with a bailout). In dive bell lockouts, the bell
>is flooded a little to make it easier. Wouldn't you do that in a sub
>lock out? So if the lock was 48" in diameter and you only flooded it up
>a foot, that would be 800 lbs. The diver leaving would be negligible,
>no? (this doesn't even include any trunk volume). Is this actually a
>problem?
>Rob B
>
>ShellyDalg@aol.com wrote:
>> Hi. This is in response to the diver weight compensation question.
>> Every dive trip in your sub requires careful measurement of what you
>> bring on-board.
>> If the dive plan calls for a diver to exit the sub while at depth, I
>> would think that it would be better to add buoyancy to cover the
>> divers extra weight while on-board, and then dump that buoyancy ( air
>> bubble ) when the diver exits the sub, there-by maintaining neutral
>> buoyancy while the diver is outside.
>> When the diver is back on-board, blow the required amount of air back
>> into the trim tank ( a measured amount of water to compensate for
>> exactly how much the diver weighs ) and again maintaining neutral
>> buoyancy.
>> A sub with a diver lock-out function would need a bigger trim tank
>> than a sub without that capability.
>> Don't forget to calculate how much air the diver displaces with his
>> body, as this will figure into the required additional buoyancy too.
>> You don't need a separate pump system, nor would that be desirable, to
>> let a diver exit and re-enter the sub. The lock-out chamber is
>> controlled by air pressure, and any small amount of water that
>> remained within would be easily compensated for by the additional trim
>> tank volume.
>> You WILL need some means of dumping the air from the lock-out chamber
>> once the water is blown out and the hatch is closed so the diver is
>> once again  at one atmosphere. This needs to be monitored closely so a
>> diver has time to dump the excess nitrogen absorbed by his body
>> tissues and blood. A diver lock-out chamber is really much like a
>> de-compression chamber, but is located inside another chamber ( the
>> sub's pressure hull ) so a compressor to drive out the additional air
>> is required.
>> Frank D.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> See what's free at AOL.com
>> <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>.
>
>
>
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