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Thijs,
Mostly we operate a very low speed...in
recreational waters...but a silent sailboat still is a problem. Back when
I sailed with Freya in 2002 - I used a diver buoy exactly like
you describe. It was bright yellow and hade a big diver flag on it.
Unfortunately it attracted recreational boats much more than making them stay
clear - so I stopped using it.
Once you get hit - it really doesn't matter who
were right and who were wrong in accordance to maritime law.
I like the idea of using hydrophones and visual
systems since I feel its us - the submariners - not the other recreational
and commersial vessels that
must prevent this problem.
Regards,
Peter
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 9:37
AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Collision
with surface vessel
Peter,
I presume that when you surface you have
some speed and you operate in waters were you have to deal with big and
noisy ships.
For small subs, operating in recreational waters
and surfacing at zero speed i was thinking of a buoy as used by scuba divers.
The (pressure-resistant) buoy should be attached to a 5 mtr. line. When
surfacing you could wait for let's say a minute at 5 mtr.depth before
comming to the surface. This works for scuba divers, so why should it not
work for subs. If you combine the buoy with a flashing light and a
rotating camera it should work even
better.
Regards,
Thijs Struijs
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 11:06
AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Collision
with surface vessel
Jay,
Kraka, the
diesel-electric boat I pilot have both up looking windows and
features a periscope. This is based on four cameras each covering 90 deg of
the horizon. By choosing to look a say camera four I know that I am
looking aft while no two give me the starborad view - and so on. My idea for
the final solution on the collision problem was to make a buoy with say 60
feet of cable on it. Its formed like a long pole with the four camera
at the top, a flotation device at the middle and ballast at the bottom.
Poles standing in the water like this can be quite stable ( provided the
uboat don't make way )
My experience is that anything on as submarine
must be made with great care. We have had many problems with flooded GPS
antennae, moisture in the periscope and broken diveplanes ( they protrude )
and the answer is always to make things better, stronger and more carefully.
Most of these problems have solutions that can not be found at the drawing
board alone.
Solving it - is half the
fun...
One of our special problems is that our boat in
only drydocked once a year so many improvements or repairs comes only in
these service periods. One of the features of a trailer based submarine is
that it sits in your living room...most of the time. This is just not the
case wih Kraka.
Regards,
Peter
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 1:43
AM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Collision with surface vessel
Peter,
I
agree with you that a collision on or near the surface is one of the most
likely major accidents to happen to a PSUB. This is supported by
submarine history demonstrating that this is one of the largest causes of
submarines under peace-time conditions.
The
ABS included the requirements for a small porthole in the hatch so that
you could look up while approaching the surface and hopefully see the
shadow of a vessel overhead that is silent or stopped. Larger
submarines with a periscope have the capability to train the scope?s top
lens upwards to accomplish the same feat. Many sub?s operating
procedures include a pause in ascent near the surface to look and listen
for other vessels in the near vicinity.
If
you do not have much internal noise in your PSUB, you should hear most
power vessels while still at some distance. A trainable hydrophone
will help discern the direction. The cabled camera is a good
substitute for a periscope but will be difficult to obtain a stable image
with known viewing direction on the surface. Just remember that
gadgets just require more maintenance and can detract from pleasurable
operating time.
R/Jay
Respectfully,
Jay
K. Jeffries
Andros
Is., Bahamas
A
skimmer afloat is but a submarine, so poorly built it will not
plunge.
From:
owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Madsen
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 6:28 PM
To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Collition with surface vessel
When people
talk of submarine safety the situation most often assumed is a sub in
distress on the seabed. This is of cause a very critical situation,
and we all
design boats that are redundant in many ways so that we hopefully never
get in that situation.
In my practical
experience - however - getting hit by a passing surface vessel when being
at or very close to surface is a much more likely incident. Depending on
the speed and size of the vessel and submarine any level of damage is
possible - and the sub I likely to sink with its pressurehull ruptured to
some extent after the collision.
We are
currently adding hydrophones to Kraka for detection and classification of
surface sound contacts, and we are designing a cable camera for the UC3 -
that can be send up prior to surfacing. We hope these technical
gadgets may make it more safe to operate our
subs.
The
professionel submariners ( navy ) that I have talked to say that they
solely depend on their passive sensors - hydrophone arrays - and they have
zero way of detecting a drifting - stopped or sailing vessel.
What do other
non navy submarine operator do - how do you psubbers handle this safety
issue ? Most people ask me why we don't just have an underwater radar ?! -
or is it sonar - a sea surface hull detection device...like the
navy...
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