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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Glass microspheres idea
Sorry. Think of putting hollow eggs in a cardboard box and compressing
the box. While the eggs would withstand the pressure of a fluid medium,
the point loading of them pushing on each other will cause them to
fracture. In the case of the microspheres, they"ll flow around sort of
like a liquid but if you point load them (compress them without a
matrix) they"ll fracture.
I've worked a lot with resins and fillers. Syntactic foam is just resin
and filler. One should not use polyester resin for glass or foam because
it is not impermeable to water. It needs to be sealed with epoxy. I
think SeaMagine is using vinylester but I don't know how that's going.
You can get a higher effective density with lighter foam by layering
sheets with a 4 or 6 oz cloth, cutting it into blocks and stacking it.
I've used it for boatbuilding when I had too much low density foam on
hand and cheap labor. I do not know how it would work in submersion.
One thought I had is to use thin wall filament wound grp pipe or tube in
a bundle. Different diameters could be nestled to get a higher buoyancy
for a given volume.
My choice would be grp pipe of a large enough diameter to glue in some
bulkheads or frames as needed.
Rob
djackson99@aol.com wrote:
Thanks Rob
Avoiding the epoxy increases the buoyancy and decreases the cost and
make it easier to build to a custom shape that can be easily detached
from the structure. The water pressure will be equal on all sides of
the container, the walls of the container will push against the 10000
psi spheres and the air between the spheres is prevented from
compressing and hence provides more buoyancy. The assumption I am
making is that 10000 psi glass bubbles can survive at least 1500 psi
when the load is applied through the wall contact points with their
neighbors. --Doug J
-----Original Message-----
From: Sundiver2000@earthlink.net
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Glass microspheres idea
Wow. Rube Goldberg would love it. Seriously though, why the extensive
effort to avoid syntactic foam? Syntactic foam is microspheres in
epoxy. If you put them in a container with air spaces between them,
they won't be incompressible. The housing would have to support
itself. Why not use foam?
Rob
djackson99@aol.com
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo("djackson99%40aol.com", "");> wrote:
> Sorry for not being clear; yes I am thinking of building floats. The
> idea is to have an easy syntactic foam replacement that takes >
advantage of the higher psi glass bubbles and offsets their higher >
density by just filling a fiberglass container with them instead of >
adding them to a epoxy resin as normally done from creating syntactic
> foam.
>
> To build the container, you could cut styrene foam to fit your hull
> shape and desired external shape, then cover the styrene foam with a
> durable layer of fiberglass. You might want to embed aluminum >
sheeting for armor, especially on the external side but also for >
mounting tabs that will make it easy to bolt the float onto the hull.
> Then drill a hole through the fiberglass; dissolve the styrene foam
> with acetone; refill the container with glass bubbles; and seal the
> hole. >
> --Doug J
> www.submarineboat.com <http://www.submarineboat.com>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> From: emile@airesearch.nl
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo("emile%40airesearch.nl", "");>
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo("personal_submersibles%40psubs.org", "");>
> Sent: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 2:37 AM
> Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Glass microspheres idea
>
> Doug,
> > (most of) The space will be consumed. Is your idea only for
buoancy > reason??
> > Regards, Emile
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Van:* owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
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"");> >
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo("owner-personal_submersibles%40psubs.org",
> "");> [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo("owner-personal_submersibles%40psubs.org",
"");> >
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo("owner-personal_submersibles%40psubs.org",
> "");>] *Namens *djackson99@aol.com
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo("djackson99%40aol.com", "");> >
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo("djackson99%40aol.com", "");>
> *Verzonden:* zondag 22 april 2007 6:58
> *Aan:* personal_submersibles@psubs.org
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo("personal_submersibles%40psubs.org",
"");> >
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo("personal_submersibles%40psubs.org", "");>
> *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Glass microspheres idea
> > I was wondering about using glass microspheres and air as a filler
in > a fiberglass compartment. For example, build a figerglass tank,
then > fill it with 10,000 psi glass bubbles and seal it off. I know
each > sphere would be loaded at points of contact with it neighbors
but I > seems like it would work to at least 3000 ft. >
> Please let me know what you think.
>
> Here is a link to 3M's Selection Guide:
>
http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?FFFFFFoMYRUF&i2Fsi2FFFSzlqBeeeeD-
<http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?FFFFFFoMYRUF&i2Fsi2FFFSzlqBeeeeD->
>
<http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?FFFFFFoMYRUF&i2Fsi2FFFSzlqBeeeeD-
<http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?FFFFFFoMYRUF&i2Fsi2FFFSzlqBeeeeD->>
>
>
> Doug J
> Tulsa, Ok
> www.submarineboat.com <http://www.submarineboat.com>
<http://www.submarineboat.com <http://www.submarineboat.com>>
>
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begin:vcard
fn:Rob Bryan
n:Bryan;Rob
email;internet:Sundiver2000@earthlink.net
tel;cell:954-662-1971
note;quoted-printable:Don't worry about people stealing an idea. If it's original, you will hav=
e to ram it down their throats.=0D=0A=
-- Howard Aiken=0D=0A=
version:2.1
end:vcard