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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Great Update on the old K-250 sub in Sandpoint



Polycarb generally failed by layered fractures... I.E. dispite the ugly visual, it looked like one of those fungus toenails. flake and crack and also tended to fail at the edges and work it's way in... although I think that was more of a problem of how I mounted the lenses. They didn't shatter like glass. Also repeated stress caused little fractures and chips on the edge.

Method of testing was by submergence on a test can (a pipe with a fitting for the viewport) lowered by measured rope with a 30lb weight at the end. which gives my depth reading a margin of error because of current, but negligable. I attempted to righ a waterproof camera within the can in such a way that when the port failed the preasure would snap off a picture of the failure. Unfortunatley it was quickly discovered that the depth of failure exceeded that of the camera housing and ruined the camera. The next attempt was rigging my infamous ping pong ball switch that failed even more miserably. Finally I was able to detect failure (breach) of the can by purchasing a CCD camera and mounting that in the can with cable to the surface behind an acrylic lense... not the best picture in the whole world because I over did the inner lense by quite a bit, but I was able to tell on the screen when water was getting into the unit... and found out that failures weren't "Immediate" and where generally preceeded by a couple seconds of seepage on the seal. then it would "Pop" more offten than not into the can. However when the seal clamp held it would spider, and then quickly fill. General depth for a lense that was 3mm thick was about 100ft, which I think again had more to do with my clamping method than anything because those genreally "popped". Spider failures where much deeper and eratic in depth.


----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Roxborough" <irox@ix.netcom.com>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Great Update on the old K-250 sub in Sandpoint



Oh, that was one other thing I meant to mention.  If I remember
correctly, Acryilic has the better optical properties, although
it would be nice if somebody could confirm that for sure (I
know Acryilic is way better than glass).

Did you take any notes when destructively testing the
polycarbonate lens?  Any worth sharing?  Particularly about
how it failed.

Ian.

On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 13:22:21 -0500
"George Slaterpryce" <gslaterp@hotmail.com> wrote:

Poly turns all "Rainbowy" for lack of a better term before failing. I did
some test with polycarb lenses cut by my friend who owns an optical shop.
(was trying to fix the warping associated with filming underwater and was
trying different lense types)... then again these where for camea ports. not
domes. But I would think the rainbowy effect would still exhibit.


----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Roxborough" <irox@ix.netcom.com>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Great Update on the old K-250 sub in Sandpoint


>
> Using polycarbonate would be either too risky (very little data)
> or too expensive (cost for the safety research) when compared
> to Acrylic.  Much research has been done on Acrylic and it's
> relatively cheap be buy the findings.  Even if polycarbonate
> had the same amount of data avaliable, I would still choose
> Acrylic because it will turn milky long before failing, where
> as polycarbonate would fail without warning.
>
> Cheers,
> Ian.
>
> On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 06:30:34 -0800
> "Brent Hartwig" <brenthartwig@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Fantastic,    It's nice to know we have good options.  Are these view
>> ports just the glass or the glass and the metal framework? I'm >> thinking I >> might like to use polycarbonate for a number of reasons. But I need to >> do
>> a list of pros and cons compared to acrylic. There is a number of
>> different brands and types in those brands that most have different
>> advantages to compare as well. It's like going to school. So you could
>> say I need to be schooled. : )'
>>
>> Brent
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Jon Wallace" <jon@psubs.org>
>> Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
>> Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Great Update on the old K-250 sub in
>> Sandpoint
>> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 08:00:29 -0500
>>
>> Hi Brent,
>>
>> I'm currently in talks with a manufacturer of certified ASME PVHO view
>> ports to offer these through PSUBS. I have no idea what they would >> cost, >> but it's an option you might consider if you choose to replace the >> view
>> ports.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>> [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]On Behalf Of Brent >> Hartwig
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 3:19 AM
>> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Great Update on the old K-250 sub in
>> Sandpoint
>>
>>
>> Great data Ian, thank you much. As I recall the scratches were really
>> light so we will see what we got once we have them out. I didn't think
>> about them soaking up water,interesting. I used to know allot more >> about >> annealing when I was working on designs for small animal enclosures, >> but
>> I'll have to dig that data out of my brain and filing cabinet and
>> refresh. The two small view ports have a large bevel on them that >> would >> require turning them on a lathe if we need to make new ones. Having >> the >> old ones will make it easier to copy them. I have a lathe that should >> be >> able to do this for us. The basic circle can be water jet cut out of >> the
>> sqare sheets here locally very quickly and for a good price.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Brent
>>
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