From: "Brent Hartwig" <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submersible Ekranoplan Hydrobatic Trimaran
Design Concept
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 06:45:42 -0800
Andy,
Remember that you can have a plurality of large hydrolic and/or electric
flaps on the subs hull and wings. Are you not a Star Wars fan? Remember
the Snow Speeders in the Empire Strikes Back? They where using some forward
opening flaps the turn the ships but you get the idea. If you have the
leading edge open up underwater then you better have it built like a tank.
I was thinking more along the lines of the flaps on the wings of commercial
plans, as well as some on the main outer hull
That reminds me of another theme sub I've been thinking about for a ambient
sub, using the Snow Speeders as the basic look of the sub.
Brent
From: Andy Jensen <drewacard@charter.net>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
CC: "Jay K. Jeffries" <bottomgun@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submersible Ekranoplan Hydrobatic Trimaran
Design Concept
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 6:05:17 -0800
>Your are both right but i was thinking totally under water kind like this
http://spray.ucsd.edu/
>but using an internal wing with Coanda effect to accelerate keeping the
wings smallish to reduce stress and drag.
>i came to the conclusion it is very dangerous if you lost buoyancy
control you could become air born or slam in to the bottom at 20mph again
it is day dreaming.
>
>Andy J.
>
>
>---- "Jay K. Jeffries"
<bottomgun@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>=============
>Brent,
>
>There has been something nagging me concerning these winged designs and
only
>now did I figure out what. While they look great, it is going to take a
>MASSIVE amount of energy to propel them underwater. At the speeds a Psub
>travels at, skin area is the predominate form of friction in the speed
>equation. The wings have a very large area so the power required for
moving
>will be VERY large. Compressibility (the amount of water pushed out in
>front of a sub) becomes the predominate factor at higher speeds.
>
>R/Jay
>
>
>
>Respectfully,
>
>Jay K. Jeffries
>
>Andros Is., Bahamas
>
>
>
>It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to
entertain a thought without
>accepting it.
> - <http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/1152.html> Aristotle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brent Hartwig
>Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 5:56 AM
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submersible Ekranoplan Hydrobatic Trimaran
Design
>Concept
>
>
>
>Andy,
>
>Perhaps if the lower part of the wing can be raised to the level of the
main
>rear wing I currently have, the entire wing system can be out of the
water
>when on the surface. It could then be designed to work as a Submersible
>Ekranoplan Hydrobatic
Trimaran. Can you say More Power, More Speed???
>
>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Aquaglide_2.jpg
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6HQSNERadQ
>
>I've been thinking about a submersible plane for some time now, and was
>working on a ducted fan RC model that would do just that. But a
ekranoplan
>would be a good start in that direction. Then after that the next step on
>the wild side is a Supercavitating Submarine that can fly at mock 2 above
or
>below the water. <http://graphics.hotmail.com/i.p.emcool.gif>
>
>http://www.deepangel.com/html/supercavitation.html
>
>If I get this job in R & D with Aerocet Inc. then we could perhaps design
>and build a amphibious stepped pontoon system for the ekranoplan sub
design.
>
>http://www.aerocet.com/mambo/index.php?option=com_content
><http://www.aerocet.com/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&I
>temid=136> &task=view&id=19&Itemid=136
>
>This is getting way to fun,
>
>Brent
>
>" The difference between genius and madness is a fine line called
success."
>
>
> _____
>
>
>From: Andy Jensen <drewacard@charter.net>
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>CC: Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydrobatic Trimaran Submersible Design
Concept
>Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 19:11:15 -0800
> >Brent
> >My line of thinking was that it would be a larger sub using this method
for
>long distance traveling using minimum fuel. I was trying to figure out
the
>folding wing issue also... nothing simple.
> >Andy J.
> >
> >Date: Tuesday, February 6, 2007 8:11 AM
> >From: Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
> >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydrobatic Trimaran Submersible Design
>Concept
> >Size: 8 KB
> >
> >Andy,
> >
> >Very interesting concept for a submersible. The lower wing will give
you
>some drag when traveling on the surface but that's mostly if your wanting
to
>go really fast. I'll plan to do a more complicated model of the trimaran
>sub that has retractable hydrofoils, for faster as well as smoother
surface
>running. There would need to be a gas or diesel engine in that model.
The
>larger size of that model will also require me to design foldable wings.
I
>have three different mechanical ways to chose from so far, for folding
the
>wings and wing tip soft or hard ballest tanks for trailerability.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Brent
>
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