[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] No more batts on psubs?



Hi, Frank - the Tesla is one incredible car with lots of juicy stuff in it, not to mention impressive numbers.  I love it - keeping a close eye on it.  Love the web site.
 
This quote from one of the sites I included in the first post says: " . . . high-power-density ceramic ultra capacitors called Electrical Storage Units (ESU) that are under development by that company. An ESU can store over 10 times the energy of lead-acid batteries and are expected to be available for use in the ZENN and regular electrically powered small cars . . ."
 
" . . . all personal transportation uses under 15 KW drive systems (equivalent to 100 peak horse power) . . ."
 
Substitute psubs for cars and you get my drift.  They're talking "full-speed pure electric vehicles" and "highway" cars.  For psubs that translates pretty well.
 
Regarding ultracaps in psubs . . . the impression I'm getting from these web sites is that it is absolutely do-able for psubs.
 
For those not familiar with the concept, here's a reply (private correspondence) from an ex-IBM instructor buddy of mine: he knows a little about this stuff  :-)
 

 
"Sure, you can withdraw the energy easily, perhaps a little too easy in some people's
minds. The thing about capacitors is that they store the energy at high voltage (pressure)
and it's effectively all available immediately. If you short out a battery, you can draw
everything the chemical reaction can supply. If you short out a capacitor you can draw
everything it has stored, at once. So if you short out the load from these 2 devices, the
battery may overheat the wires to the load, whereas the capacitor will generally melt them
down. Also, since the voltages are so much higher the chance of it arcing across an open
gap are also much more likely.
  With batteries, the tech has always been towards getting better chemical reactions to be
able to draw more amps from a smaller device. With caps, the tech will be towards better
dielectrics so they can "store" at higher voltages and also towards current limiters and
cutoffs so that any "accidents" won't immediately melt down your wiring system in a
spectacular arc.
  Here's another conceptual analogy. Think of the difference between a pressure tank full
of air and a compressor with a tank of gas (but in this case you can run the compressor
backwards and replace the gas). Each capable of supplying the same amount of "air energy".
The capacitor is the pressure tank and the battery is the compressor. Cut the hose on each
of these devices so they can "supply 100%" and see the difference in the results.
  That's one of the major differences between a battery and a capacitor. The battery is an
energy generator with a reverse capability. Energy generation (both ways) creates losses
that come out as heat. The capacitor is just a static energy storage device and any losses
are purely a result of the electrical resistance and flow thorough the wires (external and
internal).
  Think static electricity. Capacitors store energy in exactly the same way. Little
capacitors are like running that comb through your hair. Medium capacitors are like an
extended shuffle across the nylon carpet. Ultra capacitors are like canned lightning.

  They already use ultracaps instead of batteries in some small UPS (Uninterruptible Power
Supply) applications. Keep your clock, computer, whatever, powered while you change the
batteries or the until power comes back. Up until now, the ultracaps haven't been able to
store all that much "total energy", but the recent developments look like they have that
part being solved. The other part is already available, just never really applied to this
kind of tech yet.

  So yes, they could (and possibly will) replace lead acid batteries in various
applications. The problem is the supporting tech has to be completely redone in order for
it to be a "drop in" replacement. Perhaps they will build the limiter tech right in the
same package and allow it to be a drop in replacement for our current "batteries".
Miniaturization is quite good nowadays. Mass production will bring the prices down,
perhaps lower than the current technology."
 

 
Rick Lucertini
Vancouver
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] No more batts on psubs?

Hello Rick. The technology of capacitors is moving fast. I have heard of a car company developing them to use in plug-in electric cars. One local company here ( nor. Calif. ) is making some called the "Tesla Roadster"  and claim a recharge time of 6 minutes for 500 mile run......Pretty impressive if it's true. I'll be looking for this stuff, and if I find anything good, I'll pass it along to the group......Frank D.