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[PSUBS-MAILIST] Newbie design spiral
Chad, & others new to this.
You may find it interesting to see how this "newbie's" design spiral has
come along in a years time. Follow the links in this message carefully, as
it is my aim to help but, you must read between the lines.
After having come up with a preliminary concept for a diesel electric
ambient boat...
http://www.frappr.com/psub
I followed some pretty good advice, and acquired the K-350 plans. The answer
to your questions regarding psub suitable homebuilt motor housings, are to
be found here. The answers to a successful pressure vessel, also to be found
here.......thru hull fittings.....electrical......life support......ballast
/ air systems....all to be found here.
For those drawings alone...well worth the price.
Why?.....proven.....repeatedly.
In the design spiral, I myself have fallen back to step (1) as I am still in
the "learning" phase. Not yet ready to even write the statement, so keen I
am, to assure success.
Were I to be in a hurry to get in the water or just build something, I would
dispense with the design spiral entirely, and build the K-350 to the plans.
Damn tempting too, as success speaks for itself......
http://www.psubs.org/psub_pic/danh4.html
My biggest fear here (ironically) is not killing myself but ending up like
this instead........
http://www.psubs.org/psub_pic/hamel.html
So easy it is to get caught up in our own enthusiasm / passion as to be
blinded by it.
You want proof? Just take a look at this guy's goofball ideas!........
http://www.psubs.org/mlist/archive/0510/msg00134.html
Joe
From: skrewgun007@aim.com
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulic drive idea
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 20:40:41 -0400
thank you again. seems to me that hydraulic sys are not to be used at
all. I guess I should have told you that it will be built for fresh water
use so I really won't be going that far. I seem to have a hard time finding
these seals on line would you happen to know where I can go to find them. I
am guessing that I will need to have shafts and all other hardware
machined. would you know where I can look to show a good example of this
motor and housing being constructed and assembled and maybe crude drawings?
I have looked for photos in the archives to get an idea of how things are
constructed but not on these thruster pods I guess I can call them. I take
it you have a p-sub of your own. I think it would be most helpful if
someone took the time to take more photos and draw more diagrams for the
archives while building in the future. I guess I just recruited myself once
I get started eh. you may also be able to help me with some buoyancy issues
so I can get an idea of how large!
or small I can make this sub in comparison to the weight I am looking on
carrying. do you know if there is any way to figure this out as a rough
figure. no big deal just wondering. I did find the calculator for the sheet
steal weight so I can calculat my hull and tanks. as for the batteries I
was thinking of around six plus. since I will need the weight I might as
well use it for the hull or for power. since I won't be going that deep I
think power would be good for me. keeping my drop weight in mind of coarse.
someone did run some numbers by me on water displacement and lift for cubic
ft of air but I seemed to misplaced it. it also seems that the added factor
that steel and other materials weigh less in water also complicates the
figures. any help in this will help me continue my design plans.
If you keep feeding I'll keep taking it in,
Chad Beller
"Anything in life worth having never comes easy."
-some drunk guy in a bar
-----Original Message-----
From: bottomgun@mindspring.com
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 6:44 PM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulic drive idea
Chad, I had to wear earplugs daily for years around the hydraulic
systems on a submarine. If I had pursued a graduate degree in acoustics, my
focus would have been on reducing this noise for the Navy for our nuke
submarines. Instead I elected to go out and make some money. The hydraulic
noise in a small submersible quickly gets unbearable. Place regular
off-the-shelf motors in a metal housing with mechanical or flexible seals.
Later K-subs went to this method and moved away from trolling motors. For
the size of your submersible, you are going to need big motors and lots of
batteries for any duration. There is a method to calculate cross-sectional
area and skin area to calculate the necessary HP for a given speed. Shaft,
flex-joint, seal, and prop losses also have to be added to this along with
an additional HP% for safety. Pick up some naval architecture books and
they will assist you with this. You will find that you will have to tow or
carry your submersible out to mo!
st dive sites as the batteries have limited range. R/J2
Respectfully, Jay K. Jeffries Andros Is., Bahamas It is the mark of an
educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
- Aristotle From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of
skrewgun007@aim.com
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 7:27 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulic drive idea Thank you Jay for
fixing the misspelled word in my subject. I realized it was misspelled as I
sent it. so as it is a solution to rotating shaft seals hydraulic pump sys
it is not efficient. I was also wondering about the flow noise. have you
witnessed this noise? What kind of bat life can be expected out of that
sys. In theiry I would be loosing 60-70% of my possible range. What would
be, in your opinion, the best way to drive a sub. and I am sure you are
going to say trolling motors, but what are other over the counter options?
If there are any. I would like to avoid towing for most of the time. I know
I keep asking ques that you have heard before. maybe one day I can do this
for others.
Thanks again, Chad Beller
-----Original Message-----
From: bottomgun@mindspring.com
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 5:55 PM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulic drive idea From recent reading
for my Naval Architecture program, hydraulic powered propulsion system are
one of the most inefficient ~30% of pump drive shaft HP makes it to the
propeller. As to noise, you can go through all the problems of sound
isolation but there is still excessive flow noise. R/Jay
Respectfully, Jay K. Jeffries Andros Is., Bahamas It is the mark
of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
- Aristotle From:
owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of
skrewgun007@aim.com
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 6:24 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydrolic drive idea someone
mentioned that hydraulic drive sys being loud inside the sub. is this true?
and if this is true could the noise be reduced by mounting the motor and
pump on rubber mounts and insulating? still considering hydraulic instead
of sealed assembly "I have found a bolt up solution in granger catalog".
many have said that they get plenty of power from the hydraulic system.
efficientcy for extended use is more my concern. Check Out the new
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