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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] inaccurate terms & inescapable that the Hunley was a hybrid.



Folks,

I think you guys are trying to hard to prove your
points. The Hunley was and worked, well, like the
Hunley. Unless there is a pertinant point that is
going to be useful for the group in this day and age
why go to this length to prove your points?

Is it a Dead Horse yet?
(http://www.psubs.org/ethos.html#e1) 

Regards,
Ray

--- Akins <lakins1@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

> I will address your post Ian in the order of each of
> the points you raised.
> 
> 1. I said..." An ambient sub allows water to enter
> its INTERIOR to dive.
>                  The Hunley did this with her open
> top and open to the hull
>                  interior ballast tanks".
> 
>    You said..."This is wrong, any sub which has VBT
> inside the pressure hull could
>    meet this discription.  And you you could build
> an ambient sub which
>    doesn't let water into it's interior, so this
> seems irrelavent".
> 
> I will address your above statement in two parts
> since you mentioned two subjects in it.
> 
> Part 1. I am not wrong about the Hunley's ballast
> tanks allowing water to enter her hull's interior so
> she could dive. Her ballast tanks were open top and
> open to the sub's hull interior. You say any sub
> which has Hunley style tanks could meet this
> description?
> 
>           Well what other sub can you name that has
> such ballast tanks? Please name one other SUSPOSEDLY
> pressure hull, SUSPOSEDLY 1 atm sub that has Hunley
> style open top, open to the hull interior ballast
> tanks. Can you name even one?
> 
> Part 2. So what if you can build an ambient sub
> which doesn't let water into it's interior? You can
> also build a sub heavy enough so it doesn't need
> ballast tanks and can be lowered and submerged by a
> crane. What has the possibility of building an
> ambient sub that 
> 
>            doesn't let water into her interior have
> to do with the fact that most ambient subs DO let
> water into their interior. Just as the Hunley let
> water into her interior. So it is VERY relevant.
> 
> 
> 2. I said..."The water pressure entering the sub's
> interior when an ambient
>                sub dives, compresses the atmosphere
> in the sub's interior just
>                as it did with the Hunley".
> 
>    You said..."Yes, there would be a minor internal
> pressure increase from venting
>                     the tanks.  (Also note water
> does NOT have to enter an ambient sub's
>                     interior for it to dive.)
> 
> Another two part statement that I will address in
> two parts.
> 
> Part 1. You agree that FLOODING (not venting, you
> got it backwards) the tanks would compress the
> atmosphere in the hull and make the atmosphere no
> longer 14.7 lbs per sq in inside the Hunley, and
> therefore she could NOT be 1 atm.
>            
>            You can look up websters dictionary if
> you want for the definition of venting. 
> 
> Part 2. Ambient subs have an always open to the
> water section in their hulls. I believe it is most
> common for water to enter an ambient subs interior
> for it to dive. I don't think anyone here will argue
> that it is most common and everyone knows what I
> meant.
> 
> 
> 3. I said..."An ambient sub uses air to force water
> out of the sub's INTERIOR
>                to surface, just as they did with the
> Hunley".
> 
>    You said..."I don't believe this for a minute. 
> How did they use air to force water
> out?  Sailers breaking wind maybe?  The bits about
> the Hunley's operation
> I've read about claim that they used a HAND PUMP to
> empty the ballast tanks"
> 
> Your statement is in four parts so I will address it
> in four parts.
> 
> Part 1. I am sorry you do not believe what is true.
> 
> Part 2. You asked how the Hunley crew used their air
> to force water out of the ballast tanks. They did it
> by using the AIR in the sub that was compressed
> inside the hull to ALLOW them to pump the water out.
> 
>            When the water came into the hull, it
> compressed the atmosphere. It is true that they used
> a hand pump to force the water out again, but if the
> atmosphere had not been compressed by the water
> coming in, they would not have been 
> 
>             able to pump the water out so that the
> atmosphere would expand again to 1 atm. Otherwise if
> the water had entered the sub WITHOUT compressing
> the atmosphere that would mean they would have had
> to lose air for the water to 
> 
>             enter the sub. Then if they tried to
> pump the water out they would have had a vacumn in
> the sub corresponding to the water they pumped out.
> The vacumn would then preclude them pumping very
> much water out.
> 
>             So the air in the sub ALLOWED them to
> pump the water out. What other SUSPOSEDLY pressure
> hull sub do you know of that uses its compressed
> INTERIOR HULL air to allow you to pump out the
> water? None. Only the ambient subs
> 
>             use their INTERIOR HULL air  along with
> an air tank of pressurized air to push the water out
> of the hull. The Hunley did not need an air tank of
> pressurized air. She used her own HULL PRESSURIZED
> AIR to ALLOW the water to be pumped out.
> 
>             The pressurized air in the Hunley's hull
> did not directly push the water out, but without it
> being pressurized they would not have been able to
> expell the water. 
> 
> Part 3. You said...."How did they use air to force
> water out? Sailers (sic) breaking wind maybe? Oh boo
> hoo, that was not a very nice thing to say and I
> think I will make a big deal about it and whine that
> you are not nice like you said about me
> 
>            for absolutely no reason. Very childish
> Ian. Everyone here knows exactly what you have said
> and what I have said and everyone here knows I am
> not rude, crude, abusive or not nice unless someone
> acts that way first. Then I will give it right back
> 
>            to them like I am giving it back to you
> now. So let's dispense with the personal attacks
> here against me by saying I ascribed you saying
> things that were not what you said and that I am not
> nice for doing it. I never said you said anything
> other than
> 
>            what you wrote for all to see here. I can
> admit when I am wrong and not take a cheap shot
> against someone to divert attention away from the
> fact that I was wrong like you did.
> 
> Part 4. That is correct that they used a hand pump
> to pump the water out as I described in part 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 4. You said...."Well there you go, you got 1 out 3"
> 
>                      I believe I have proven that I
> "got" 3 out of 3 Ian. 
> 
>                      Let me ask you THIS question
> though, suspose I had only gotten 1 or 2 out of 3?
> That would still show the Hunley had attributes and
> qualities of an ambient sub design. So my point
> would be made that the Hunley had attributes and
> qualities
> 
>                      of an ambient sub even if I had
> gotten just 1 or 2 wouldn't it? It would still have
> proved the Hunley had some attributes of an ambient
> sub wouldn't it? Proving my point that she had
> attributes of both an ambient and a pressure hull
> sub,
>     
>                      and that she is therefore a
> hybrid of the two types.
> 
> 
> 
> 5. You said..."There where (sic)  a few other error
> in your text , but I can't bothered
> point them out at this point - most of them have
> been address in my
> other emails, as have most of your questions.
> 
> Ian, there are so many errors in your text as to the
> facts,  that I can't be bothered either to point
> them all out at this point. I have addressed the
> Hunley having attributes of ambient and pressure
> hull subs. I believe I have proven
> 
> it with logic and reason AND been nice in doing so.
> The conclusion is inescapable. The Hunley was a
> hybrid 
=== message truncated ===



		
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