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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 1 atm is 14.7 lbs per sq in. No more, no less.



Hi Bill,
 
Specious corollary, sport. This is not a "yes or no" as is pregnancy.
Standard "one atm" is 29.92 inches of mercury, or 1013.2 millibars (which are the same as hectoPascals).
However, at this moment, the pressure of the atmosphere in Death Valley is 884, but usually it's higher than standard, being below sea level.
Today my home area is about 1013, it's a beautiful day.
The top of Mount Everest? 540.
Hurricane Camille (in 1969) brought sea-level pressure of 909, a record low.
 
An ambient sub has pressure inside it the same as the water at its depth.
If you want, let's call a 1 atm sub one where the pressure might vary from 540 (you won't last long) to 2000 (you probably won't get the bends) millibars.
 
If Hunley had flooded, due to a broken window, sailors should have been able to open the hatch.
 
-Peter "no emboli" Korwin
 
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 02:42:11 -0400 "Akins" <lakins1@tampabay.rr.com> writes:
Hi Brian.
 
If her atmosphere is compressed when she floods her open to the hull interior ballast tanks and the atmosphere is no longer exactly 1 atm, then she cannot be accurately called 1 atm which is 14.7 lbs of pressure per square inch.
 
Some people have said that she is "close" to one atmosphere. But that is not 1 atm. It does not make sense to call something a mathematically specific term when it is not. You either are pregnant or you are not.
 
You cannot be close to pregnant, you cannot be a little bit pregnant, you either are or you are not pregnant. Just like it is either 14.7 lbs of pressure at sea level (1 atm) or it is not. It would be incorrect to call 15.7 lbs of pressure
 
1 atm when it is not. That is what you and others are saying with the Hunley though and it is not correct not only for the Hunley but for any submarine that does not have an interior atmosphere of exactly 14.7 lbs of pressure per square inch.
 
A column of air one inch by one inch wide extending up into the atmosphere 60 miles presses toward the earth with a force or weight of 14.7 lbs also known as 1 atmosphere.
 
Our scientists and mathmaticians calculated 1 atm to be 14.7 lbs. Not 15.7 lbs, not 16.7 lbs nor even less at 13.7 lbs. Either a submarine's interior atmospheric pressure is 1 atm or 14.7 lbs per square inch or it is not.
 
If the Hunley started out at the surface with hatches open with an interior atmosphere of 14.7 lbs and then trapped all her air when she submerged, then filled her open to the hull interior ballast tanks with water which compressed the
 
rest of the hull's interior atmosphere to a higher pressure than 14.7 lbs, then the Hunley's atmosphere was no longer 14.7 lbs and therefore she was no longer a 1 atm sub. As I said in an earlier e mail, what does "close to 1 atm" mean?
 
Is that like "a little bit pregnant" or shall we discuss what the subjective term "reasonable" means?  14.7 lbs of pressure is NOT subjective. It is a specific mathematical term. 14.7, not 14.8, not 14.6, but 14.7 period.
 
If the atmosphere of ANY submarine is not 14.7 then they cannot accurately be called a 1 atmosphere submarine and we need a new term to describe what type of submarine she is. You can call a pig a giraffe if you want to, but that does not
 
make it so. I seriously believe we need a new term in the submarine world to address this discrepancy and I already suggested it in an earlier posting regarding using 1 atm as a baseline and testing pressure variables during sea trials and then
 
catagorizing the sub from a baseline of 1 atm to whatever her largest pressure variable was. That is accuracy. "Close to" is not. Show me a sub that has an interior atmosphere that measures  14.7 lbs of pressure per square inch and I will agree that is a
 
1 atm sub. If she has an atmosphere of 14.9 lbs, then she is not 1 atm since 1 atm is 14.7 lbs ONLY. There may be times she is 1 atm and times she is not, so it would not be correct to just call her by the term of 1 atm.
 
It is possible I may be incorrect about the Hunley being ambient but there is no way she could be 1 atm either with her tanks compressing her interior hull atmosphere.
 
I stand by my statement that we need a new terminology that is mathmatically specific in describing what type a sub is. If all the submarines that we normally think of as being 1 atm are actually not always 1 atm, then they cannot with accuracy
 
be called 1 atm subs since they are not always 1 atm. Why name something the specific term of 1 atm that means a mathematical figure of 14.7 when that thing is not always 14.7?
 
Kindest Regards,
 
Bill Akins.
 
 
 
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] When is ambient, ambient and 1 atmosphere, 1 atmosphere?

The Hunley is a 1 ATM submarine.
 
Brian Cox