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Ray,
The reason I asked
about Ragan is that with talking with the Hunley guy last month he was saying
that much of the info in Ragans book was taken from another book printed
previously. I didn't realize he worked as one of the divers.
Brian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 11:56
PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Response
from Hunley archaeologist.
Hi Brian,
Mark K. Ragan. He wrote "Submarine Warfare in the Civil War" ISBN
0-306-81197-9. The book covers a lot of the submersible work on both sides
during the Civil War.
Mark is closely associated with the Hunley project. He presented at the
2003 PSUBS Convention in Hew Hampshire details about the Hunley recovery.
Puttering around in his K-250 led to getting involved with the Hunley
recovery. He worked as one of the divers.
As a side business he trains submersible pilots with his K-250.
Regards,
Ray
Brian Cox
<ojaivalleybeefarm@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Ray,
Who
is this guy Regan taht wrote a book on the Hunley?
Brian
-----
Original Message -----
From: "Ray Keefer"
To:
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 5:40
PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Response from Hunley
archaeologist.
> Hi Ian,
>
> I always believed
Hunley was 1 ATM.
>
> Close the hatch and the cabin is at 1
ATM. Open a
> seacock to the ballast tanks and water flows in.
>
Remember that the inlet for the flood valves are near
> the bottom of
the Hunley so there is a pressure
> differential between cabin
pressure and water
> pressure. Water will come in.
>
>
How much the increased the cabin pressure gets from
> air displaced by
the ballast water I have no idea. I
> will check Regan's book to see
if t! here are any
> dimensions.
>
> Regards,
>
Ray
>
> --- irox wrote:
>
>
>
> > I still don't see any reason that the Hunley is
>
> ambient. If it was ambient it couldn't
> > dive without
pressure compensation, this does not
> > appear to the the
case.
> >
> > Unless some piece of information is
missing, the
> > Hunley is 1ATM. The crew where
> > always
subjected to surface pressure (give or take
> > the very small
amount of
> > pressure increase from the ballast tanks
venting
> > into the cabin). Once submerged,
> > it
doesn't matter what depth the Hunley is at, the
> > crew will be
under the same
> > pressure, if it was ambient, the pressure the
crew
> > would be experiencing would
> > be the same as
the external water pressure.
> >
> > If somebody c! an
supply my the internal volume of the
> > Hunley and the volume
of
> > water used to dive, I will calculate the internal
>
> pressure after diving.
> >
> > Ian.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Akins
> > Sent: Jun 9, 2005 3:00 PM
>
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > Subject:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Response from Hunley
> > archaeologist.
>
>
> > Hi forum.
> >
> > I had contacted the
Hunley organization and they
> > told me they would have one of
their archaeologists
> > get back with me.
> >
>
> He did today. From what he says, it seems the Hunley
> > was
technically ambient but not always slightly
> > positively buoyant
like the Holland was.
> >
> > It seems the Hunley's
weight acted as a giant hand
> > trying to pus! h her under and
just a small amount of
> > water let into her ballast tanks would
submerge her.
> >
> > Here is what he had to say about
the Hunley. Bill
> > Akins.
> >
> >
>
> Dear Sir,
> >
> > Thanks for your interest in the
H.L. Hunley
> > submarine ....and your questions. Hopefully I
can
> > answer them.
> >
> > "My information is
that the Hunley had open top
> > (bathtub style) ballast tanks that
were open to the
> > hull interior. My information is that the
Hunley did
> > not carry compressed air tanks."
> >
> > Yes, the submarine had no compressed air and the
> >
ballast tanks were open to the central crew
> > compartment.
However, I should clarify that the
> > ballast tanks were in the
interior of the submarine,
> > separated from the crew compartment
only by a thin
&g! t; > bulkhead.
> >
> > "This
would make the Hunley like an upside down
> > glass trying to
submerge without losing any air. The
> > only way the Hunley could
submerge in my mind, would
> > be for the Hunley to use her forward
motion and dive
> > planes to force her underwater, is this
correct?
> > Then once underwater the superior water
pressure
> > would force water into the opened valve of the
open
> > top ballast tanks and compress the atmosphere
> >
in the Hunley."
> >
> > Well, not exactly. I think you
are looking at this
> > the wrong way. The Hunley would have
been
> > positively buoyant when the ballast tanks were
>
> empty, although just barely. We have a good
> > indication
that she was very easy to swamp -
> > probably as a result of low
freeboard and the fact
> > that she was quite heavy. While she did
in fact
> > carry all of her air with her, it is the water
in
> > the ballast tanks that acts as the ballast for the
>
> submarine and determines her buoyancy. Air
> > compresses,
water does not. By opening the valves
> > and allowing water into
the ballast tanks, the sub
> > would become heavy enough to
overcome the buoyancy
> > of the air "bubble" and sink. The air
from the
> > ballast tanks would be simply compressed slightly.
> > In order to surface, the crew would pump out the
> >
water by means of two hand pumps, decreasing the
> > weight and
allowing her to rise. With minimal air
> > pressure, water could
always be let into the ballast
> > tanks or pumped out as needed,
but the key factor
> > was alw!
> > ays the WEIGHT of the
submarine. In modern
> > submarines, I believe compressed air is
used to
> > force the water ! out of the ballast tanks, but
the
> > air is only functioning like the pumps on the
> >
Hunley. It is still the water or lack thereof in
> > the ballast
tanks that determines whether the sub
> > sinks or rises.
>
>
> > "Also, has anyone done an analysis of how stable
or
> > unstable the Hunley would be if she dropped her keel
>
> weight to return to the surface, and were there any
> >
indications of that trying to be done inside the
> > Hunley
artifact?"
> >
> > No and no. I don't think they ever
actually removed
> > the keel weights while under water. I believe
it
> > was designed to be an emergency assent option only.
>
> We found no indication that they attempted to
> > release the
keel blocks on her final mission.
> >
> > I hope this
helps answer some of the questions you
> > had.
> >
> &g! t; Sincerely,
> >
> > Michael P.
Scafuri
> > *********************
> > Michael P.
Scafuri
> > Archaeologist
> > H.L. Hunley Project
>
> Warren Lasch Conservation Center
> > P.O. Box 21600
>
> Charleston, SC 29413
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> >
>
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