Re: Reply to: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS - 3/17.1.1 - Normal Ballast Sy stem

[Ray Keefer <Ray.Keefer@Sun.COM>]

Hi,

Two discussions at the 2003 PSUBS Convention:

"White Paper Discussion - Do we Need Safety Standards for Private Submersibles?" by Hugo E. Marrero
"Review of Johnson Sea Link Disaster" by Jon Wallace

Sparked a PSUBS Standards Committee. The purpose of the committee was to go work offline to review and comment on several standards.

Regards,
Ray


Marten Liebster wrote:
> 
> Hugo, welcome back.
> 
> If a "standards movement" is started, I would like to help in any way
> possible.
> 
> Marten
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugo Marrero
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:31 AM
> To: 'personal_submersibles@psubs.org'
> Subject: FW: Reply to: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS - 3/17.1.1 - Normal Ballast Sy
> stem
> 
> To All,
> 
> I am forwarding this message, which I intended to post here, but sent just
> to Vance by mistake. It is intended for all here.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Hugo
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hugo Marrero
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 6:25 PM
> To: 'VBra676539@aol.com'
> Subject: RE: Reply to: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS - 3/17.1.1 - Normal Ballast Sy
> stem
> 
> OK Guys,
> 
> I re-thought my desicion, and it is really stupid of me to back off from
> posting in this site. Submarines are my life and is what I love to do.
> Everyone here seems to be a great person, and your honest comments are
> refreshing. Sniff  ... sob... sniff.... LOL...
> 
> I promise that I will keep my postings as impersonal and as objective as
> possible. I do respect the fact that many here have the guts to get in a sub
> made in their garage.
> 
> Special thanks to Vance, Marten, and Steven for their frankness of
> expression and kind words, they are the main reason of my re-thinking my
> stance.
> 
> Vance, you are right on the money. I have been blessed to dive and operate
> many different subs. And to me personally, ballast is everything. This
> applies to the time when I drove the Atlantis I, IV, IX, X, & XIV. These
> subs displace 80 Tons and the VBT in the 48 passenger boat has a capacity of
> up to 12,000 lbs of sea water. Even though they are mosntrous in size, the
> difference between a good pilot and a mediocre pilot (for these subs that
> is) is the ability to ballast the submersible properly.
> 
> As for the analogy between cars and subs, I respectfully disagree with such
> comparison. Cars, ships, airplanes, homes, buildings, appliances, SCUBA
> diving gear, computers, toys, and just about any mass produced product; all
> of them come in every kind of color, size, and persuasion. The common trait
> between them is that they are all built under a basic core set of standards
> designed to make these products safe.
> 
> Some of these products require a certain degree of knowledge and skills to
> operate, such as, SCUBA diving gear, Cars, Aircraft, tools, boats, etc..
> The basic operating standards and certifications established for these
> products are designed to give the user a basic knowldge to allow the person
> operate such equipment safely, and to ensure that all users meet a minimum
> agreed set of knowledge and skills. Isn't safety the main purpose of these
> standards? Does anyone honestly believe that these standards are made by a
> bunch of bozo's who just want to  manipulate what you and I do with our
> lives?
> 
> The standards set forth by the ABS, are the result of many years of
> development through the input (read heated arguments or  honest and candid
> discussions) from many agencies including The Society of Naval Arquitects
> and Marine Engineers (SNAME), The Marine Technology Society (MTS) , the US
> Navy, the US Coast Guard, the US Department of Transportation, the National
> Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), Institute of Electrical
> and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) and  the American Society of Mechanical
> Engineers (ASME, who set the standards for the construction and
> certification of Pressure Vessels for Human Occupation PVHO, which includes
> manned submersibles). If careful consideration is given to these documents,
> which are available to the general public, the reader will see that the
> safety concerns raised by each of these bodies of knowledge were not only
> valid, but sound. They were created with the intent to prevent or minimize
> the inherent risks and accidents associated with manned submersibles that
> would hinder (or completely shut down) the growth of an innovative and
> potentially profitable industry.
> 
> One of such publications is a book titled " International Safety Standard
> Guidelines for the Operation of Tourist Submersibles" written by John A.
> Pritzlaff, and published by the Society of Naval Arquitects and Marine
> Engineers (SNAME). On the second sentence of the Foreword this book it reads
> as follows: "It is our sincere hope that these safety standard guidelines
> will see world-wide use and will serve as the basis for safe operation for
> tourist submersibles". This book was dedicated to the late Frank Busby, who
> many of us have in high regard. In the first sentence of the second
> paragraph of the Introduction on page 4, it reads: "These guidelines were
> written as a safety aid to all who design, build, operate and ride in
> tourist submarines". Later on in the third sentence of the same paragraph it
> reads: "The purpose of these  safety guidelines is to promote and maintain
> safety."
> 
> These people raised their concerns after seeing an increase in the
> copnstruction and activity of tourist submarines. By defining safety
> standards, the tourist submarine industry became under regulation by the US
> Coast Guard in the US and by International Regulating Agencies such as ABS
> and Det Norske Veritas Worldwide. These agencies created the standard by
> which others would be measured. Their justifiable concerns gave the tourist
> submarine industry the edge they needed to move forward. If this is
> manipulative bunk, you be the judge.
> 
> With this in mind I propose the creation of a set of standards for Personal
> or Private submarines if you will. We could set discussions, meetings, and
> agendas within an alloted time-line to bring arguments to the table, look at
> what we can learn from the wisdom of publications like the one mentioned
> above, and then come into an agreement which will serve as a guiding
> standard for the safe design, contruction and operation of Private /
> Personal submersibles.
> 
> I honestly believe that by giving our attention to these issues, which I see
> raised over and over in this site, we can give direction and purpose to our
> dreams of building and owning our own subs. And who knows, maybe this could
> lead to the creation of a whole new industry.
> 
> Anyone interested? Please, post your sincere opinion. Lets get the ball
> running!
> 
> Thanks to all again!
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Hugo Marrero
> 
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