Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey, looky, rocket fuel as ballast!

[Coalbunny <coalbunny@vcn.com>]

I would prefer going the explosive route before I went toxic or
corrosive.  What is the likelyhood of anything causing an explosion in
the ballast tanks?  Besides if there is a way, if you're already at
1,000 feet in a sub rated for 1,200 feet and you're going down fast, I
think I'd rather the tanks blow up and get it over with.
Carl


Dewey Mason wrote:
> 
> We actually looked at sulfuric acid, as it reacts with
> saltwater to produce a large amount of gas at
> relatively low temps. Down sides are:
> 
> A: It's a bit corrosive.
> 
> B; The gas is chlorine, and thus a little toxic.
> 
>  Other catalysts that work with water might do OK.
> Just can't produce toxic or explosive (i.e. Hydrogen)
> gases. CO2 as an end product would be great. Any
> ideas?
> Dewey
> --- Emile <2stroke@hetnet.nl> wrote:
> > Dewey,
> >
> > I looked for you in the book '"rocket propulsion
> > elements"from G. Sutton,
> > what is the bible for rocket engines
> > He spend a few pages about this subject . In short:
> > -burn time: 30-300 sec
> > -temp 800-1600 K
> > - can be used in steel casings
> > There is mentioned a variaty of uses from car
> > airbags to (yes, underwater
> > application) drive missiles out of a submarine.
> >
> > Seems to me there is a lot of research needed to get
> > it reliable . Isnt
> > exist a chemical what yust produces gas in contact
> > with water?
> >
> > regards, Emile
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dewey Mason" <drmason2001@yahoo.com>
> > To: <Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org>
> > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 5:34 AM
> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey, looky, rocket fuel as
> > ballast!
> >
> >
> > > Hey Guys,
> > > I have been spinning our TDPF sub ideas off of
> > some
> > > different engineering type folks, and all but one
> > > thought I was high on something, or just joking
> > them
> > > around. Greg Kokes seemed to think I might live
> > > through my first sub, but in this he was alone.
> > >  I would like to hear the views of this group on
> > the
> > > idea of using either a solid, slower burning
> > > propellant, or a two part chem-mix to create
> > ballast
> > > blowing gas at extreme depths for normal return to
> > the
> > > surface, or as an emergency alternative to HP air.
> > I
> > > know on the surface it may sound like "death come
> > > calling", but I do believe that with a little well
> > > applied risk management and some fair amount of
> > > physics, one could create gas from liquid or solid
> > > resources carried out in the ballast tanks, or
> > between
> > > the hulls, to give lift to come home on.
> > >  The idea being to either ignite a small, slow
> > burn
> > > "rocket", or contained, otherwise watertight
> > > propellant charge, to create gas, or inject an
> > > oxy-fuel mixture into a combustion chamber of
> > sorts
> > > and harness the resulting gas. This could be done
> > > directly inside the ballast tanks, or outside the
> > > tanks in a purpose built compartment, and just
> > route
> > > in the gas. Cooling the plumbing should be fairly
> > easy
> > > using seawater, if needed.
> > >  I realize the cooling effect of water would
> > diminish
> > > the gases volume pretty fast, but huge amounts of
> > gas
> > > could be produced from a relatively small amount
> > of
> > > fuel, and the gas would only lose so much volume
> > > before reaching a stable temp. There would be no
> > real
> > > leak issues I can see, due to the fuels being in
> > > separate containers, themselves separated by metal
> > > bulkheads and water.Also there would be no need
> > for
> > > them to be pressurized beyond what an internal
> > spring
> > > piston could provide, due to their ambient
> > pressure
> > > environment. I hope to hear both suggestions of
> > "How
> > > to", and the "Devil's Advocate" side of this.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Dewey R Mason II
> > > Abyss Marine Technologies
> > >
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Spotted Owl...it's what's for dinner.