Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speculation...

[Ray Keefer <Ray.Keefer@Sun.COM>]

Hi Rick,


My comment below.

> Raven93 wrote:
> 
> Greetings:
> 
>     Well, being a new guy I guess I can get away with asking something that has probably already been discussed, maybe more than once.
>     When are submarines going to go mainstream?  

When we have proven to our spouses, friends, neighbors, parks departments, and governments that they are safe. When we get thousands of home builts out in the public eye and are common place with near zero accident rates. When people who used to think we are crazy stop to listen to our exciting adverntures and marvelous sights under the waves. When WE build up the public to believe there is something worth while to see down there.

> When will I commonly see people trailering their sub to the lake?  

When the general populace sees subs as a fun and reasonibly safe toy. 

>Will they ever be even half as popular as surface craft.

I doubt it. Subs are not as speedy, suped up, flashy, or to be seen in type of craft. Some macho dude can always buy a bigger boat. But a sub underwater is not seen. Subs are also not as versital. The typical ski boat can be used to ski, fish, buzz around in. A sub, well, sinks.

>  And the biggy, what sort of design would it take?

Cheap, simple and safe. Cheap and simple says Ambient design. My fear is that too many fools will get hurt. You could build in a bunch of automatic safety features like dive computers, automatic blow when too deep, automatic blow when air supply drops too low, .... For liablility purposes they will always have to work with no maintenance. Unfortunately there will always be a smarter fool that will override or ignore such features, get hurt, then sue.

The alternative would be a 1 ATM design which would not be cheap.



>     First off, I don't think one of these super-heavy types we're seeing will ever catch on.  Nobody wants to give the old Vitara a hernia trying to budge one.  Plus, if you consider you're looking at $50000 to $60000 to build a KA-350, IF you do as much of the work yourself as you can, the average guy won't opt in.

A K-350 is around 3000 pounds. What does a large trailerable boat weigh?

The average guy will possibly buy a sub off the shelf if in the price range of a jet ski or small boat. Say $5,000 tops. The cost points to a Ambient design and/or major mass production. However insurance and regulation forces will push the costs out of sight like it did in private aviation. Oh yes, regulation. As soon as these become more numerous the regulations will be written to cover our little hobby.

>     So what about a lightweight design made of composites framed up something like an old tube and fabric airplane? 

Possibly for an Ambient design.

> Yeah, ballast will be a MAJOR issue.  How about water ballast, maybe combined with some lead?  

Your ballast has to be denser then water to make up for the air spaces that are less dense then water. When the two balance out you are neutrally ballast. That means adding whatever amounts of weight, like lead or steel, you need to bring the hull neutrally bouyant. Think of the entire dry space of the hull full of water. The weight of that amount of water is how heavy the sub will have to be. 


> Flood and blow?

Compressed air and manually operated valves. 


>     Another thing, most people aren't divers like me. 

A non-scuba diver in an Ambient design is a death waiting to happen. They do not understand the physiological effects on their bodies and can easily make a mistake. At least the operator has to be certified. Passengers do not.

In a 1 ATM a non-scuba diver might get by unless some emergancy forces a bail out. Certainly being a certified scuba diver with a C-card (Certification Card) will allow you to get your air tanks filled with compressed air.


> They'll want a dry sub, and enough room to take the fam for a cruise.

Commuting in my Geo Metro has given me ample time to reflect on that.
A four seater sub. With lots of windows. Points back at a Ambient design. 

>  And they'll want a trailerable boat.  



> And being a diver, I can tell you now I'd rather free swim with scuba gear than ride in a wet sub.

Scuba diving and a wet sub are close to the same thing. The general populace
would rather be dry.

>     There is a design, it just has to be thought of.  And when it is, submarines will become a popular sport beyond us compulsive tinkerers and dreamers, a sport within reach of the average working guy for weekend entertainment.

OSS (Open Source Submarine) is an attempt at such a design. So far the
closest design I have see in production is the SportSubs.

>     Has anyone looked at adapting airplane building techniques to submarines?  So far, heavy and traditional has not brought about the "everyman sub".  Maybe going in a totally unexpected direction is the answer to finding the design.  Just some thoughts.  I might be crazy, ha ha!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Rick...

Perhaps there is something in the airplane space that could be useful.

Regards,
Ray