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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pampanito

To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pampanito
From: "Steven Mills" <barycenter@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 17:15:12 -0700
References: <20030524052552.75704.qmail@web13501.mail.yahoo.com> <000201c323b1$02b05540$d968b83f@oemcomputer> <1053993295.3ed2a94f17045@webmail.rawbw.com>
>From: Jeff Post <jeffpost@rawbw.com>
>
> Actually, the Pampanito has been on exhibit near Fisherman's Warf since 1982,
> long before before it was leased for the movie you are refering to. She has been
> modified for static display, and was towed for use in the movie.
> 

I should have known, but wasn't sure. I lived there '78 to '98. Do you
live in SF or the Bay Area? If so, have you checked out the mothball
fleet out in Suisun Bay?  There was a row of WW2 subs there at one time.
I wonder if they're still there?

--Steve

> 
> Quoting Steven Mills <barycenter@earthlink.net>:> 
> > Great, then I wasn't seeing imaginary things then!  I confess when
> > it comes to sub movies and docu's my critical eye for good and bad
> > plots go out the window.  I'll watch a sub film once or twice then go back
> > to pick out background details. What was that movie with that
> > "Frazier" character..."Down Periscope"?  If memory serves, the sub
> > used in the film was the "Pampanito"?  I believe it was the last time
> > she saw service before being placed on permanent exhibit near
> > Fisherman's Wharf in SF.
> > 
> > My movie collection for Subs is sadly lacking.  I need to set aside a
> > budget for this.  I'm going to die a poor man [ but a happy one! ].
> > 
> > --Steve
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > Steven Mills <barycenter@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > >From: Dan H. 
> > > > 
> > > > I don't really have answers to your dual hull design.
> > > >.............snip...............
> > > 
> > > Thanks Dan,
> > > 
> > > My curiousity was more 'textbook' than practical.
> > > Ever since the topic of Bill's pSub came up I've been seeing
> > > propane tanks everywhere I go. They seem to come in a
> > > variety shapes and sizes. I *might* consider designing an
> > > ROV around one, a shallow submersible, or wetsub.
> > > Checking past messages in the archives, there seems to be
> > > a general consensus to stay away from designs using propane
> > > tanks.
> > > 
> > > I've been doing a little research on framing and stiffening rings.
> > > [ along with all the other topics brought up here ; batteries,
> > propulsion,
> > > ballasting...etc. whew! ]
> > > 
> > > Has anyone seen the movie "U571" ? I've only seen it once on T.V.
> > > I could swear there is a scene where the sub is under depth charge
> > > attack and the compression shock exposes [ or outlines?] the frames
> > > along the hull. I was quite surprised by that added special effect.
> > > Does anyone have a video or dvd of "U571" Perhaps someone could
> > > review it and this particular scene? Or maybe I just imagined it.
> > > 
> > > --Steve
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Steven Mills" 
> > > > To: 
> > > 
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 11:52 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bill Gifford's Project
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > >From: Dan H. 
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I visited Bill's site and read what you quoted. Bill's project sure
> > > > looks
> > > > > > interesting but I wish, for confusion sake, Bill would have noted
> > that
> > > > his
> > > > > > propane tanks that were tested to 325 PSI and rated at 250 PSI for
> > > > INTERNAL
> > > > > > pressure! External pressure is a TOTALLY different matter. I'm sure
> > > > Bill
> > > > > > realizes this and is designing accordingly.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks. That thought had occurred to me just before receiving your
> > > > > response.
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps I need a little clarification on the definition of dual
> > pressure
> > > > > hulls. Is Bill's design a dual hull or a reinforced single pressure
> > hull
> > > > > [ using the small tube and frames for reinforcement ; and the smaller
> > > > > tank left open ended after the cut or capped-off]? The ends of the
> > > > > smaller tank were cut and welded to the larger for hard ballasts.
> > > > > For simplicity, my mind envisions something akin to a thermos bottle;
> > > > > 2 closed vessels reinforced with frames or stiffening rings between
> > > > > the 2 hulls. [ Which brings me to the next question...]
> > > > >
> > > > > > One thing to consider when designing one tank nested inside another
> > is
> > > > that
> > > > > > you can't weld your framing to both tanks unless the difference in
> > size
> > > > is
> > > > > > great.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, I would think that the framing would be welded on the outside of
> > the
> > > > > inner hull? The outer hull would not only be subjected to pressures
> > > > > initially, but also to temperature differentials? The contraction and
> > > > > expansion over time would fatigue and stress the welds at the inner
> > > > > part of the outer hull first if the 2 hulls were welded together at
> > the
> > > > frames?
> > > > > The temperature in the inner hull would be affected by intenal
> > environment
> > > > > ie., body heat and residual mechanical/electrical heat? Or are these
> > > > > minute considerations?
> > > > >
> > > > > >Even if you design it strong enough without the frames welded to
> > > > > > both tanks, you still have the risk of corrosion in places that you
> > > > can't
> > > > > > access for inspection.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Would a foam, dessicant, or bonded covering [ anodizing the steel?]
> > > > > solve this problem?
> > > > >
> > > > > --Steve
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Dan H.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Steven Mills" 
> > > > > > To: 
> > > 
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 1:34 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bill Gifford's Project
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: Warren Greenway 
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They are rolled and welded (so, yes, they do have a
> > > > > > > > seam.) The ends are then welded onto the tube. This
> > > > > > > > is standard practice, and while there may be variation
> > > > > > > > you can bank on them being built this way.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Warren.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill uses 2 tanks with the same ASME rating, but it is a single
> > > > > > > pressure hull. [ see quote/specs below ]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If a double hull were to be designed, would you have the inner
> > hull
> > > > > > > at a stronger and thicker spec than the outer hull? [ using 2
> > propane
> > > > > > > tanks ]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also, this might seem an oddball question or inconsequential, but
> > > > > > > should the weld seams on both hulls be parallel and lined up with
> > > > > > > each other?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --Steve
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ....quoted fromBill Gifford's website....
> > > > > > > http://www.giffordmarineinc.com/sub/little_gato5_9_01.htm
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "I have chosen to use two new propane tanks to form the pressure
> > hull.
> > > > > > > Each tank is made of A-516 grade 70-pressure vessel steel, .270
> > inch's
> > > > > > > thick. Both tanks were pressure tested to 325 pounds. They have a
> > > > working
> > > > > > > pressure of 250 pounds and are ASME rated with a spec. Plate on
> > each
> > > > > > > tank. I am installing three by one half-inch reinforcement rings
> > every
> > > > > > two-foot
> > > > > > > on center. Plus additional deck and bulkhead framing. The
> > one-tank
> > > > easures
> > > > > > > 17.6 ft. long and the other is 9 ft. I have cut a hole in the top
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > larger tank,
> > > > > > > around that I intend to install the conning tower, which is made up
> > of
> > > > > > parts
> > > > > > > of the smaller tank and additional plate. I have cut the ends from
> > the
> > > > > > smaller
> > > > > > > tank and have connected them on each end of the larger tank for
> > hard
> > > > > > > ballast. I have purchased a eighteen-foot by two foot by quarter
> > inch
> > > > pipe
> > > > > > > for the soft ballast tanks. The pipe was split log ways and will
> > be
> > > > > > attached
> > > > > > > to each side, to form the side tanks. The sub will have a
> > displacement
> > > > of
> > > > > > > approx. 18,000 lbs. "
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- Steven Mills wrote:
> > > > > > > > > I haven't examined a propane tank closely, but are
> > > > > > > > > they filament
> > > > > > > > > wound and rolled or are the ends welded to the tube?
> > > > > > > > > Is the tube
> > > > > > > > > seamless or also rolled and welded? Are they all
> > > > > > > > > manufactured
> > > > > > > > > the same way?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --Steve
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: Coalbunny 
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Yes, it is! What about the innerds? Can we get a
> > > > > > > > > spec sheet and
> > > > > > > > > > drawings if we want to make something similar?
> > > > > > > > > > Carl
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Steven Mills wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Wow, that's quite impressive !
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It's a beautiful boat.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --Steve
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > From: Jeremy Crawford 
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If anyone hasn't checked out Bill's Sub lately
> > > > > > > > > you should, the exterior is
> > > > > > > > > > > > done and it looks awesome. Kudos Bill, you
> > > > > > > > > have done a fantastic job!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > Jeremy
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > http://www.giffordmarineinc.com/sub/sub_5_16_03/Sub_5_16_03.html
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > "Indeed, desire is the seed of thought, the prime
> > > > > > > > > force that activates
> > > > > > > > > > the mechanism of the mind." -- Kama Sutra
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > __________________________________
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> > > > > > > > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
> > > > > > > > http://search.yahoo.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jeff Post
> 
> Everything can be inherited except sterility.
Follow-Ups:
- Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pampanito
  - From: Jeff Post <jeffpost@rawbw.com>
References:
- Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bill Gifford's Project
  - From: Chris Nugent <dirkpitt77@yahoo.com>
- Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bill Gifford's Project
  - From: "Steven Mills" <barycenter@earthlink.net>
- Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pampanito
  - From: Jeff Post <jeffpost@rawbw.com>
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