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RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS Pressure hull basic layout.

To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS Pressure hull basic layout.
From: "Warrend Greenway" <dub@linuxmail.org>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 02:14:56 +0800
Content-Disposition: inline
I think the S101 is a little, shall we say, beyond this project at this
time. There is no way we will be getting a view of the bottom with the
constraints we have placed on ourselves. A submersible camera, and/or
sonar transponder will have to suffice. Also, a thin seat-back would
separate the pilot and the passsenger, to avoid head-aches.

Warren.

> Hi Guys 
> That was my concern as well, I like the novelty of back to back, but I
> want to be able to see the bottom. Also, I don't want to keep banging
> heads with the guy behind me.  I would still favor something like the
> Marlin S101 or the lula http://www.marlinsubmarines.co.uk/s101.htm with
> side by side seating and one large front dome, but I suspect that the
> dome will cost too much for most P subs. Also at 5000Kg (4.9 tons) It is
> probably too heavy as well. 
> 
> Just my thoughts -
> Greg
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Carsten
> Standfuss
> Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 4:09 AM
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS Pressure hull basic layout.
> 
> Submadmans, Ians "OSS-back to back" is a amazing compact hull for a
> doubleseater, and it is really nice that both guys sitting together.
> 
> But it can not be lengthend with a sectionmodul
> for a diesel or diver section.. 
> And you can not looking forward to the bottom..
> 
> Regards Carsten
> ----------------------------------------------------- 
> 
> Warrend Greenway schrieb:
> > 
> > http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/20030123.223500/back-to-back.jpg
> > 
> > That one. Disregard the fairing for now, and just focus on the
> pressure
> > hull itself. I'm running the design through FEA right now to get an
> idea
> > of how stout it will be.
> > 
> > Warren.
> > 
> > > Hi Warren-
> > > Which design exactly?
> > > Thanks-
> > > Greg
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Warrend
> > > Greenway
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 5:49 PM
> > > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS Pressure hull basic layout.
> > >
> > > I built the sub as you described it in SolidWorks, and calculated
> the
> > > displacement
> > > of every part, including the battery pods, and came in at
> 1360kg-3000lbs
> > > trailer
> > > weight. You could also make the acrylic cylinder optional with
> classic
> > > round
> > > viewports optional. This is incredible. My brother and I made a
> mock-up
> > > of the
> > > main cylinder, and it felt down-right roomy! Unless anyone has some
> > > logical
> > > objection, I'd say we should focus on this hull design. I was also
> > > playing with
> > > the ballast tanks and center of bouyancy, it all worked out great.
> This
> > > baby
> > > would be rock stable and manueverable. Rock on, Ian!
> > >
> > > Warren.
> > >
> > > > In the diagram:
> > > >  The main cylinder is 1 m in diameter and 1.4 m long.
> > > >  The foot wells are 0.5 m and 0.725 m long.
> > > >
> > > >  The total displacement would be 1.3 cubic meters
> > > >  (in sea water ~1300kg and 2600lbs).
> > > >
> > > > This would a lot easier to tow, probably wouldn't
> > > > require such a big vehicle...
> > > >
> > > > There might be a problem with supporting the upper
> > > > endcap, since the acrylic should not take the weight
> > > > of the end cap and people climbing in and out of the
> > > > sub.
> > > >
> > > > Ian.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:37:48 +0800
> > > > "Warrend Greenway" <dub@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hey! Yeah! That drawing you made really struck a chord with me!
> That
> > > is
> > > > > great...As for the elliptical conning tower...That is quite
> > > possible.
> > > > > However, it may not be far off just the way you have it...That
> isn't
> > > quite
> > > > > what I was thinking...It is better.
> > > > >
> > > > > Warren.
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:33:37 +0800
> > > > > > "Warrend Greenway" <dub@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > Here's the reason I would want two  hatches: This is a two
> man
> > > sub. Do I really want
> > > > > > > two hatches? You've got to be kidding me! Heck no! But I
> also
> > > have never been a big fan
> > > > > > > of slithering like a snake. Not my style. If the hull
> diameter
> > > was greater then I would
> > > > > > > advocate a single hatch.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Make the passenger sit up front then. ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think with some well placed hand rails you could get in and
> out
> > > of the
> > > > > > forward seating position without too much "slithering".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Would somebody who has sub like to comment on this?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gosh this weight constraint makes things exciting! It
> wouldn't
> > > be that difficult at
> > > > > > > all if this was a one man, but two...Whoa. What about a
> large
> > > conning tower with both
> > > > > > > passengers back-to-back? It's not like the view behind the
> sub
> > > would be any less exciting
> > > > > > > for the passenger...Well, let's see if we can bang out
> > > something...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've thought of something like that a few times.
> > > > > > (check http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/subfiles.html for a
> diagram).
> > > > > > But I'm not sure how comfortable it would be without making
> the
> > > hull pretty big
> > > > > > (or using an out of around shape for the coning tower).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ian.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:02:21 +0800
> > > > > > > > "Warrend Greenway" <dub@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > OK. You have some really interesting ideas here. I
> > > personally
> > > > > > > > > would like to see two hatches, possibly of raised domes,
> or
> > > > > > > > > the cylinders.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm interested in why?  I can't seem see any advantage to
> two
> > > > > > > > hatches on a sub this small.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I only put one hatch in because putting two would make the
> > > moment of
> > > > > > > > the boat unstable on the surface.  I.e. two open hatches
> on
> > > the surface
> > > > > > > > puts a lot of weight high up, now imagine if two people
> stood
> > > up at the
> > > > > > > > same time.  There is also the cost factor and effort of
> making
> > > two hatches.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I thought your seating idea was great! I also
> > > > > > > > > like the "foot dome", that is an interesting concept,
> > > because
> > > > > > > > > it minimizes the volume. Also, putting the instruments
> and
> > > > > > > > > controls on rails so that they roll out of the way
> sounds
> > > like
> > > > > > > > > a good idea, then they wouldn't be in the way when you
> are
> > > > > > > > > climbing in. Did you get a chance to look at the
> pictures of
> > > my
> > > > > > > > > canted idea?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It's hard to tell why you've done that for the picture.
> > > Infact
> > > > > > > > it's hard to get any useful information out of a 3d
> pictures.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Other than that, I think it would be endanger of being
> > > > > > > > swamped if the dome was open and small wave hit the boat.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ian.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > hi,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I did a little fiddling around with the pressure hull
> > > layout.
> > > > > > > > > > Using a foot well, it seem that we could design a hull
> > > with
> > > > > > > > > > around a 2 cubic meter displacement (~2000kg or
> ~4400lbs).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in what people, in particular about the
> > > > > > > > > > dimentions with regard to confort.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ian.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/subfiles.html
> > > > > > > > > >
> http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/20030123.175639/hull-v1.jpg
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Approximate displacement: 2 cubic meters (~2000kg or
> > > 4400lbs)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hatch top is 2.5 feet from the water line, per ABS
> spec.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > One dome viewport, one cylinder style veiwport.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Only rear seating position has a hatch, the dome
> doesn't
> > > not open.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Seats would probably be made of cloth and hung
> "hammock
> > > style"
> > > > > > > > > > so they be easily moved out of the way making it easy
> to
> > > access
> > > > > > > > > > the front seating position.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Front seating position is for the viewer/guest, the
> rear
> > > position
> > > > > > > > > > is for the pilot, the idea is the pilot sitting
> slightly
> > > higher
> > > > > > > > > > to see more.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Controls would been to fold away so they do not
> inhibit
> > > passage
> > > > > > > > > > to the front position.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
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