Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] group submarine designing - good or bad.

[Coalbunny <coalbunny@vcn.com>]

I'm not sure that actually building the sub is the idea, is it?  I was
under the impression that it was a "community design cooperative" or
something like that.  Where would the sub be kept?  Who would be the
caretaker?  Once built, who could run it?
Carl


Warrend Greenway wrote:
> 
> It would be open source in that it could be used for profit as long as any improvements/
> info developed are put back into the project and made available for all. It's non
> commercial in that the PSUBS.org group working on/guiding the project are designing it
> specifically to meet the needs of all of us home builders. The project will stagnate as
> you predict if a basic spec sheet isn't written quickly so that specific areas of interest
> may be developed. I guided a few project in the past, and the trick was to get into the
> dirty details as quickly as possible.
> 1. Who wants to build the speed controller?
> 2. Who wants to do the view-ports?
> 3. Life support, anyone?
> 4. Basic hull?
> 
> The only thing the K class is supposed to do for us is give us something to consider.
> 
> 1. Is it large enough, or is it too small?
> 2. Is speed/range acceptable, or does it need to be improved.
> 3. Is it portable enough, or is that a concern?
> 4. Does it fit within average financial constraints?
> 5. Is manueverability acceptable?
> 
> This is all the K class is supposed to do. You are entirely correct that we have find
> ourselves in hot water if we ripped off the design. On the other hand, how much of the
> K class technology is actually proprietary? Not much. We shouldn't spend all our time
> talking over what a cool idea this all is, but rather focus on the details, just as
> you suggested. For instance: I am quite capable of developing either the "black-box"
> or the speed controller, or stepper controllers for rudder/duve plane control. Just tell
> me what it needs to do exactly, how large a motor? What do you want the black box to store
> and or display? Someone just needs to do the same with the hull. Who has experience with
> sub pressure hulls? Who has fiberglass experience for fairings? etc.
> 
> Warren.
> 
> >
> >
> > "non commercial" vs open source.
> >
> > If it's "non commericial" then I don't see how it's open source.
> > There is no open source project that says you can not use it
> > for commerical use.  They are plenty of projects that provide
> > a "not for commerical use" version, sometimes with source code,
> > but this isn't an open source project and calling it an open
> > source project would dilute the (already over loaded) term
> > "open source".  - just my 2 cents.
> >
> >
> > Group submarine project.
> >
> > Wasn't there a couple of people (from this list?) who tried to
> > design a submarine together and after 3 years still had not
> > finish the specs stage?  (I heard this third hand so I could
> > be wrong).
> >
> >I'm not saying this is a bad idea, although the energy might
> > be better spent focusing on more specific areas of submarine
> > design, such as a motor control circuit (I remember Ken Martindale
> > posted Motor Controller Schematic http://www.psubs.org/pic/motorcontrol.html),
> > or a trim tank control system, or Auto-Hover depth control like the
> > sport sub, or a black box dive recorded, or nice way of controlling
> > a spot lights direction from within the submarine.... etc..
> > I.e. things that are really useful to the submarine building
> > community.
> >
> >
> > K-350 vs open source.
> >
> > I don't recall George Kittredge open sourcing his K-350
> > design, which means that we don't have permission to create
> > works derived from any of Kittredge designs and then give
> > the plans away for free.  We could produce designs that
> > could be used with a K class, "Auto-hover depth control for
> > you K-250", but not redesign a K class and then give the
> > plans away.  I don't think anybody here would buy all the
> > rights for the K class off George and then open source it
> > either.
> >
> >
> > Talking vs work.
> >
> > I'm interesting in being a part of this idea, but not
> > until I see that real progress is possible.  I'm also
> > not convinced that it is a good idea to be a psubs
> > project, and that it may open psubs.org up to more
> > liability than the people running it would wish.
> >
> >
> > Ian.
> 
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