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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re:SUBSAFE

Title: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re:SUBSAFE
To All current and aspiring Psub builders and operators,
I think SAFETY and PRUDENCE are very important points that should be really taken to heart. As "Tech" divers kill themselves in ever increasing numbers, that sport moves closer to more intrusive regulation. If we all had to certify our subs with ABS (at$10,000.00 to $20,000.00 a throw) and operate under expanded U.S. Coast Guard regulations, How long do you think this would be a viable sport? We don't have the membership base to create a DEMA or an EAA. We could easily be regulated right out of existance. Private aviation is a perfect example. If the EAA hadn't lobbied for the Experimental class, How many people could afford to own a plane of the  FAA certified type?( ie Cessna ,Piper etc) you get the point . I am new to the Psub website but not new to sub building and pressure vessels. I have 23 years experience as a Boilermaker. I am not bringing this point up to be arrogant or condecending, I am bringing it up because as i look thru the archives and read the current chat some of it it very  unsettling. Example:"Using A36 Steel for a sub pressure hull " a definate no no. That person needs to do some more homework. I fully realize that alot of the chatter is just idle fantasy and will probably never be acted upon, thats ok, thats what life is all about. But if the 1% or 2% of the scary ideas are carried out. That worries Me . I have a sizeable investment in my sub and i would like to use it for more than a shop ornament.
 If your thinking of building a sub read  " Manned Submersibles", ABS or Loylds of London (Rules for submersibles and diving systems) , and ASME manuals for PVHO. If you find some or all of this information overwhelming seek out someone who does understand it and FOLLOW their advice.  If you don't, you can and will get hurt and also ruin it for the rest of us! Just because you can cobble something together to save money doesn't mean you should.
Well enough ranting, I am by no means an expert but if someone needs help i would happy to help them or steer them in the direction of somebody who can. Small Manned Submersibles have had a good safety record up till now, let's keep it that way!
Dam Lance

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From: Doc <doc@bionicdolphin.com>
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re:SUBSAFE
Date: Sun, Jun 23, 2002, 12:23 PM


Aloha Pat and all,

 If we comprehend cause and effect, if we are diligent in examining history so that we do not repeat past mistakes, if we may dissuade
those who know not, but know not that they know not, then as a movement of like minded adventurers, we will be "allowed" to dream
and achieve with a relative amount of freedom from regulation and scrutinization.
 If not, PSUBers will suffer the same fate the Ultrlight aircraft sport suffered in the early eighties. We will be biasly tried and convicted
in  the highest court in the land,,, the media.
 We are all blazing new trails in the only true wilderness accessible to the common man, it is our destiny to open the eyes and minds
of those who have not yet seen the oceans as the lifeblood of us all.
 There is always some degree of risk in what we do, minimising this risk, I believe, is the key to opening the freeway to the seas.

Just my oppinion.

Doc
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBSAFE
All,
Because they operate in hostile environments, submarines are inherently dangerous. Accordingly, the ABS imposes strict PVHO guidelines over subs designed for commercial use.  Homebuilt submarines are not similarly regulated, though; in fact, there are little or no controls on their design, construction, or operation. Two reasons why this is so may be: (1) heretofore, there haven't been enough homebuilt submarines to warrant governmental regulation; and (2) we have a good safety record: to date, not one known fatality due to the implosion of a homebuilt pressure hull.
Now, however, with websites such as PSUBS creating a forum where anyone can seek or offer advice, increasing numbers of homebuilt enthusiasts are designing and building subs of their own.  Resultantly, experienced subbers have cause for concern because misadventures involving the inexperienced (beyond being tragic) may engender restrictions on a pursuit we presently enjoy great freedom in.  To avoid this, I believe we need to maintain high standards of credibility within our ranks; and this implies encouraging the use of caution and common sense in sub-related activities.
Pros like Phil, Carsten, Captain George, and others have proven their abilities, and have thefacilities, to design and build exceptionally capable submarines; but that doesn't mean the amateur enthusiast can do the same in his own back yard.  As many of us know, there's a lot more to submarines than meets the eye; and as I've said before, this is one of those things where what you don't know can hurt you.
If you, as a homebuilt submarine enthusiast, know you have a solid foundation in the design, construction, and operational skills required to achieve a successful deep-diving sub, I salute you and wish you all the best. However, (IMOHO) if you don't even know how to find your own waterline you probably shouldn't attempt a deep-diving sub as your first project. To me, that's like a first-time novice homebuilt aircraft enthusiast setting out to build a spacecraft: absurd from the standpoint that he'll probably never succeed, but dangerous from the standpoint that he might kill himself (and/or someone else) if he tries.
I'd like to open this discussion to obtain the opinions of others, for the sake of all concerned.  What do you guys think might be some factors defining safe and unsafe  parameters for the first-time homebuilt submarine enthusiast designing and building his own sub?
Pat