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RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propane sub
Craig,
This comment is not intended to be offensive but I think you're being a bit
naive in assuming that just because many of us don't share your depth of
knowledge regarding propane, we are going to sit by without expressing
concern. Keep in mind that this forum is for people who are interested in
submarines, there is no entrance exam (fortunately for me :) ). I beleive
that it was not so long ago that one of our number was killed under
circumstances not too dissimilar from yours, so it is understandable that
everyone is a bit edgy about ideas they view as dangerous. Also keep in
mind that a large part of the reason that none of the "high grade ore" is
around any more is that they didn't like all the new and dangerous ideas the
rest of us were proposing and got tired of trying to protect us from
ourselves.
It seems what you're asking for is a critique of an engineered design, like
"hmm Craig, it seems you have that valve drawn backwards" only there is no
drawing so all you're getting is an unwelcome sanity check. I certainly
wouldn't presume to critique something based on a half explanation and no
drawing, but I might say something like "Propane? I don't know... my
neighbours BBQ exploded last week."
Anyways, I do have a question here, which I will ask you because you seem
to be a reasonably clever fellow. Have you given any thought to propeller
design? I believe you mentioned a large diameter, slow turning prop with a
typical 1/2hp power input (could be wrong as I just read most of this thread
and that was at the beginning). Are you going to design it yourself or do
you have something else in mind?
Wade
Wait one more thing before I jump off my soap box... A buddy of mine, who
is a very smart character and an excellent engineer once locked his keys in
his car with the engine running, twice in one week. The point is that you
shouldn't jump at people for suggesting common sense issues just because you
have a reasonable technical grounding, because they might save you one day
(although I never did suggest to my friend that locking your keys in your
car with the engine running isn't a good idea).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]On Behalf Of
CWall@swri.edu
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 4:31 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propane sub
Craig,
I know you said you burn the propane in the ballast, and you can keep your
buoyancy as long you feed the ballast with propane, true.
But will not there be a time when you are surfaced and stop running your
engine? meaning your ballasts are completely filled with propane
***********************************************************************
Herve, again: You are not listening! I said before that with ALL ballast
tanks completely flooded, the sub will be trimmed with syntactic foam to be
very near neutral bouyancy.
This means that I only need to have propane in the trim tanks- the hard
ballast, unvented- non-free-flooding, or whatever you want to call it- and
the
sub can be removed from the water without a release of propane. And
yes, I
can stop running the engine, and NO, the ballasts tanks are not filled with
propane- only the little trapped between two valves in the trim tanks.
Why is this so difficult for you to understand? Are you just not reading
what
I post?
****************************************************************************
***
****************
and if they
are opened at the bottom, with some oxygen with it, very little I agree but
some anyway since Sea water releases oxygen all the time (didn t you know
that?), along other gases. That small amount of oxygen is enough to trigger
a chain reaction, that s exactly what to happened to me but with Hydrogen.
****************************************************************************
***
*************
Yeah- with *HYDROGEN*. Not propane. Big difference.
**************************************************************************
What do you do then with your sub and its ballast filled with propane and
small O2. Your cylinders are DOT approved for propane, not your hull nor the
ballast' s tanks!
*****************************************************************
Actually, the hard ballast (trim tanks) likely WILL be DOT approved propane
tanks. Or perhaps Freon tanks. In any case, they will be quite robust.
Corrosion will be a concern, of course, but then the tanks will be
inexpensive
and replaceable.
*****************************************************************
Now if you tell me that a ballast, vented or opened, filled with propane
under gas form is not a threat I better be off your conversation.
*************If it's mostly propane- 90% or so, then NO- it's not a threat.
>From the beginning this is all my concern and nothing else, not only the
ballast itself filled with propane is dangerous, but to me it looks like,
tell me if I am right, that you might release outside at least 50CuFt of
propane when you pull your sub out of the water.
*************Wrong. See above.
Or do you storage your sub ballasts filled with propane?
**************Only the trim tanks which are sealed by valves .
If it is the case, although I am a risk taker, I do not want to be any close
to your sub.When my mini sub blew away, the ballast hatch flew 20 Ft away
fortunately nobody was there to meet with it.
You can do whatever you want with yourself Craig, my concern is the people
around you when you operate the sub, and you know how attractive a sub is to
the public.
************If I don't blow myself up, Herve, I can't blow anyone else up.
Your concerns about vented releases are unfounded- especially since once
AGAIN
you seem to think it is impossible to burn off vented propane.
Not only you are the only one on this forum to call people names, but it
looks like you have little concern for others as far to operate your sub.
Herve
*********Herve, you may not have used the word DUMBASS as I did- but you
do
exactly the equivalent when you imply that I cannot assess obvious risk.
Well, I'm done. I'm not about to keep repeating myself because you can't
read. I've answered your questions point for point and now you want to go in
circles. If you had some valid criticism I'm sure it would have shown up by
now, so all I'm doing here is wasting my time.
Craig Wall