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RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propane sub

Hi Guys - Lots of talk lately, but an awful lot of depth charges being
dropped as well. In the immortal words of Rodney "clubhead" King - Why can't
we all get along.
Most respectfully, and Sincerely,
Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]On Behalf Of
CWall@swri.edu
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 4:32 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propane sub


Craig,
Where do you get off making assumptions about my country ? I would be very
happy to stick to the subject and started out doing that but do you think
you will get the best out of this group by refering to them as "low grade
ore" Are you a "high grade harvester" :-)
********************************************************************

Actually, Karl, I've already gotten the high grade ore in the form of email
contacts- people who used to post on the list, but don't anymore because
they
also think most of the posters are dim bulbs.   They contacted me, and they
are
 offering resources that are quite welcome. But this seems to be the case
with
nearly every public forum. (*shrug*)

**********************************************************************

I have not seen one comment about your idea that deserves a negative
response.

********************************************************************

How about the ones that *assume* that I'm incapable of perceiving risks?
I
get pretty negative when people casually imply that I'm stupid, and then
prove
they don't have a clue as to what they are objecting to.

****************************************************************************
*
I personally would like your ideas to succeed as would anyone in
this group. I have tried to understand what you want to achieve. As for
knocking creativity, read the archives, full of new concepts put to the
collective mind of the group. I personally do not have the resources to
build a sub I might end up scraping so value all comments from another
perspective. Do you ? It need not be taken personally when someone differs
with your ideas.
******************************************************************

Differing is one thing- ridiculing with no basis is another. And yeah- since
I'm designing a sub that is going to be very inexpensive in the first place,
I
CAN afford to scrap it.

*********************************************************************

Generally I can't see any merits in propane for ballast for me but that does
not mean there isn't any and I wish you luck in finding the answers you
require. A merit I can think of, is it seems that you would not need an air
compressor and HP air storage. Before I assume that, will you have any
compressed air on board at all ?
***************************************************************

I will have a scuba bottle inside the pressure hull, but not enough volume
that
 I cannot withstand an uncontrolled release without overpressurizing the
crew
compartment.  That will be for emergency breathing and escape only, and will
not be used in ordinary circumstances.

************************************************************


When using up the propane in the ballast
tank, in order to dive, how do you intend to use up the last bit without
sucking water into the engine by mistake ? If you have an open bottom
ballast tank with no valve at the bottom you will need to remove the last
bit by either venting or some other method, as any gas left in will be
compressed as you dive and the deeper you go, the greater the negative
bouyancy will become.

(*sigh*) Do you REALLY think I don't know this?   JEEZ that's insulting!



 If you have a  shutting off valve on the bottom of the ballast tank (like a
hard tank) you would not need to remove the last bit but the ballast tank
would then become subject to external pressure like a hard tank and would
need to be strong enough. Maybe you should  be ballasting in the hard tanks
with propane and they could be bigger than normal. That way you should never
have to vent into the air !
*************************************************************

Look, a lot of this is really annoying because I've already addressed this
and
you apparently don't read all of what I am posting.

I will have BOTH types of ballast- both hard and free-flooding.   Using up
the
last propane from the free-flooding tanks is trivial- you simply watch the
waterline as it sinks down and stop in time, or you use a sightglass to
detect
liquid, or you install a floatvalve to stop the gas flow when the ballast
tank
gas is gone- or more likely all three.  Is this all that hard to figure out?
And finally, you arrange the carb the reject liquid, just like any deck
ventilator.

 Sheesh!  It AIN'T rocket science!

****************************************************************************

I don't need to defend NZ from your comments but consider this.
NZ was the first country to use composite materials for an America's Cup
challenge in Perth, it was called cheating.
 NZ has won the America's Cup the last two times with a convincing 5
straight wins each time, unheard of for a long time.(In 2003 we will be
lucky to win it because over 60% of the crew and technology people have gone
to USA or other countries, lured by big money.)All this on a budget small in
proprtion to the competitors. All from a team effort.
************************************************************************

Yup. And you should be proud of that.  But I still don't like Socialism, and
that's what I see when I look at NZ.

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***
********

You like flight Craig. It is a known fact that nobody can prove for sure
whether the first powered flight happened in NZ or USA, by the Wright's or
Pearce who made his own engine !     http://www.richardpearse.co.nz
That's enough of that !

As an aside, I noted that you have a gyro copter ! An engineer friend of
mine is doing the final testing and getting CAA approval for a gyro copter
he designed and has had a huge amount of interest in. I built some of it. It
is a fully enclosed version and should cruise at a little over 100knots. It
is powered by a twin rotor Mazda engine. I'll post the webb page address
when it is approved and ready for marketing, if you are interested.

Regards,
Karl.

***************************************************************

Don't bother about the gyro- I already know about it.


As for who made the first flight, I have no trouble giving credibility to
Pearce- but flight and fully controlled flight are two different things. The
Wrights may not have been first by some measures, but they demonstrated a
mastery that clearly no one else had achieved at the time.

Craig Wall