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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Questions, questions and more questions
Hey Tony,
As an option you may or may not want to consider on
the sonars, Carsten says 3 or 4 thousand bucks for a
good one, and he's right, but if ya wanna go cheap and
sacrifice quality, maybe a couple o' fish finders?
When submerged, point the transducer of one upside
down(or up), n it'll reflect off the surface for a
good depth reading. Point one down to get a decent
view of the bottom and such. Crude, but workable and
not as pricey.
Nuge
--- Carsten Standfuß <MerlinSub@t-online.de> wrote:
> Hi Anthony.. some answers..
>
> TeslaTony@aol.com schrieb:
> >
> > This is a list of a few questions that I have for
> building a sub, I don't
> > need exact info on everything just yet but I
> eventually will need them.
> >
> > 1. How much space does the life support system
> take up (O2 tanks, scrubber,
> > etc.)?
>
> You need at least 0,25 Liter/minute O2 each person
>
> Acorrding to the rules (GL 1988 Chapter 2
> submersibles)
>
> - in two undependable storage groups
> - best storage place is outside the hull
>
> - minimum running time for one-man subs should be 72
> hours
> - minimum run time for small subs should be 96 hours
> - minimum run time for autonomus subs should be 168
> hours
>
> So for a one person sub it should be
> 72 hours x 60 minutes x 0,25 Liters = 1080 Liters
> 1080 divided by a storage pressure of 220 bar = 4,9
> Liters
> 4,9 divided by two groups = 2,5 Liter each bottle.
>
> And for a two person sub:
> 96 h x 60 x 0,25 = 1440 Liter x 2 persons = 2880
> Liter
> 2880 / 220 = 13 Liter / by two bottles = 6,5 liter
> each.
>
> The CO2 absorber depents on the used material but
> the general rules are
> :
> - CO2 partial pressure should be between 0,005 bar -
> 0,01 bar each time.
> - CO2 production of each person should be calculate
> with 20 Liter/hour
> for each person at 20°C and 1 bar atmosphere.
> - At the end of the O2 run time the CO2 pressure
> should be under 0,02
> bar
> inside the vessel
>
> - I think a scuba rescue system should be also in
> each PSUB for each
> person..
>
> Without O2 support the air inside you hull will fit
> you about 20-60
> Minutes
> depents on the size of your pressure hull.
> You can test this time on your finished pressure
> hull very easily if
> close the hutch with you inside (which should be
> possible to open from
> the outside)
> and somebody outside.
>
> Starting the clock and wait - if the headeages get
> to high you have CO2
> poision
> and this last air reserve is over. If you fall in
> coma your
> wife/friend/girl
> should open the hutch.. Time in Sgt.Peppers was 40
> Minutes..
>
> >
> > 2. Where is a good place to put the motors, inside
> the main hull or outside
> > in a secondary hull?
>
> Depends on the design. Sgt.Peppers for example has
> all 5 motors outside
> for
> some reasons. I want a sub with a small displacement
> - so I want a small
> pressure hull. CSSX for example will be the main
> engines and most
> equipment
> inside because of maintance the motors with the sub
> in the water.
> In General : Thrusters outside, non-electric main
> engines like diesels
> inside. In smaller boats with only a electric
> main-engines maybe
> outside.
>
> >
> > 3. Does anyone know anything about using jets from
> a jetski to propel the sub
> > or is this totally new territory?
>
> The efficency of a jetski drive is lower than a
> propeller drive at low
> speed.
> But for high speed sub it can be usefull. Cousteau
> use some kind of
> water jet
> pump nozzels in his early flying saucers. But listen
> there is no jetski
> drive
> on the market with a high-pressure proof seal on the
> axis - ( or ??)
>
> >
> > 4. What kind of controller arrangement does
> everyone have? (A simplified
> > version of this question would be "What does you
> dashboard and steering wheel
> > look like?")
>
> I use two arcarde- joysticks in one box to control
> all four thrusters
> and one
> orginal Minkota-controler for the main engine in
> Sgt.Peppers.
> But this depents on your own expirence - a EMM
> (electronic-mad-man) will
> be control
> his sub with a laptop, a steel-man with some kind of
> gear and maybe long
> steel pipes etc..
> Cssx will be a electric aircraft steering system for
> the rudder and a
> simple four
> step switch four the electric main engine. For the
> diesel and the side
> rudder
> will be a second station as joystick which I can
> give up to the hutch to
> the outside
> sail to control the sub on the surface or inside the
> harbour.
> (Sgt.Peppers joystick-box can be also use from
> outside the hatch - the
> cable is a little
> longer than its needs..)
>
> >
> > 5. How are the things that need holes in the hull
> made so that they don't
> > leak or compromise the safety of the sub?
>
> Hmm.. Let me think - one hole for each motor cable
> .- one hole for VHF
> Antenna
> two holes for main battery cable, two for the lamps,
> one for the drop
> weight release,
> One big one for the front window, one for the
> entrance,
> 5 for the ballast tank-air-out/in pipes, 2 for the
> regulator,
> one for the snorckel : about 21 holes in
> Sgt.Peppers.. most for cables.
> There are some good description on "Manned
> Submersibles".
> All holes tighted by different design of o-rings.
>
> >
> > 6. Can the gas in the ballast tanks be allowed to
> just bubble off into the
> > water to sink and then be replenished from a CO2
> cylinder or other gas tank
> > or should there be a compressor to pump the gas
> from the ballast tanks into a
> > pressure vessel onboard?
>
> Just bubble outside - is the normal way, replenished
> from a air tank,
> which can be filled with a normal scuba-compressor.
> The compressor
> should be
> onshore on smaller subs. Bigger subs have them
> inside but this make only
> sence
> in combination with a diesel. There is no reason to
> have a compressor on
> board
> of a electric-only driven sub. You lost the space
> for the compressor,
> for
> aditional batteries - put a bigger pressure bottle
> to the sub is much
> simpler
> and more safe.
> CSSX will only use a small amout of air to start
> blowing the ballast
> tanks.
> If the submarine is surfaced with just the sail the
> diesel will run and
>
=== message truncated ===
=====
"Noisy outside, empty inside." - Confucius
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