Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Unconventional UW Propulsion YIKES!

["Paul Suds" <paul_suds@hotmail.com>]

Hey guys (you too Nemo), I just read the response about unconventional UW 
propulsion. I had to wade through much garbage, so I really didn't read it 
until now. Below are your questions. I'll try to make it brief, but 
thorough. I don't know. That's the response to many of your questions. I'll 
go back and send the papaers to all that requested them. One thing you have 
to realize about instituitions that develop this technology. They want to 
make a buck of of the transfer of the technology, so they don't provide the 
volumes of data. Pat, you did ask very good questions though.

1. the vortex is not like a turbine jet engine, it is more like a solid or 
liquid rocket. the vortexing action is necesary to allow the reaction and 
keep the aluminum from gumming up.

2. aluminum powder is commercially manufactured. It is one of the main 
ingrediants in flash powder. This was something I used as a kid to make 
fireworks. I forget what else they use it for, but it is so fine that if you 
get it on you, it gets in your pores and you have to wash it off.
i don't know what mesh they used in the viortex.

2 1/2. I don't know this, but a chemical calculation could give you a 
theoretical yeild. I haven't done one yet. I don't know what the efficiency 
is.

3. Aluminum powder is relatively cheap, I used to buy it as a kid. 
Hmmm...Cheap may be a relative term, for bulk quantities.i don't know what 
mesh they use.

4. I tried to make it as a kid. Buy it unless you have a grinding mill.

5. I could fabricate it, but would want to use some higher temperature 
alloy. I'm sure they have a design based on experimentation, but they 
probably would not share that with you unless you wnated to part with $$$.

To make a good model, you would have to do some experimentation. I'm sure 
you could build one small enough for a Psub.
It seems that with this model, you would not have a problem with it blowing 
up, you are more likely that it would shut down than blow up, but that is my 
opinion , based on limited knowledge.
Suds

Hey Suds,

A couple Q's about VORTEX COMBUSTION:

1. Does this work like a jet, providing steam as thrust for
direct vehicle
drive; and / or can it be used to power a steam turbine which
drives a prop?

2. Does this process use a lot of aluminum powder, or a little?
(I'm
wondering about fuel efficiency, storage tank capacity, cost per
mile, etc.)

3. Is aluminum powder something I can buy inexpensively?

4. Is aluminum powder something I can make by grinding down
aluminum stock,
or is the stuff used in VC more refined?

5. Is the machine which makes this work (the VORTEX COMBUSTION
"engine"
itself) something I can make in a modestly equipped shop?  (Is
it a simple
tube and combustor like a ramjet; or does it require precise
machining like
a turbine does?)

Perspiring minds want to know...well, one of 'em does, anyway!
;-)

(Now, some of you might be thinking: "There goes crazy ol' Pat
again:
wanting to climb inside a cramped compartment with a potential
bomb."  But
wait!  What's to stop anyone from mounting something like this
externally
from the pressure hull on sruts that keep it at a relatively
safe distance?
If this thing will work, there are probably ways it can be
adapted to a sub
with reasonable safety, no?  I mean, I don't actually have to be
in the same
room with the beast: I can always set it up "next door", so to
speak.
Right?)

I get the feeling VORTEX COMBUSTION is like "Tom Swift and his
Underwater
Jet Plane".  Hmmmmm....I can see it now...Warp Factor Nine in
fifty foot
visibility....is that a pier piling?  Not even enough time to
say "OH SH..!"
before the big whammo and the final surprise!  But still, as a
propulsion
source, it's an interesting idea.  I mean, we wouldn't actually
have to run
it flat-out all the time, would we?  Mightn't this be a useful
source of
propulsion at slower speeds and higher economy settings?

Howsabout some more info, Sudsy?

VBR,

Pat

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