Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re: Fiberglass

["Greg Teiber" <wolfe19@megsinet.net>]

The fiberglass bottles used for HPA, and CO2 storage are HOLDING BACK pressure, not trying to withstand it.  So you are testing the tenstile strength of the Fiberglass (and the fiberglass is wound in a certian pattern I should remind you)  Not it's compressive strength.  the Resin used to hold the fiberglass on isn't providing any strength, unlike in a compressive setting.  I DO have a 3000psi compresed air tank here made with a thin steel shell inside a thick wrapping of fiberglass, and I have a 4500psi carbon fiber wrapped tank as well.  NEITHER would stand up to compressive forces.

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On 1/18/00, at 7:39 PM, MerlinSub@t-online.de wrote: 

>Carsten - from you know from were..
>
>Michael B Holt schrieb:
>> 
>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:56:30 +0100 MerlinSub@t-online.de (Carsten
>> Standfuß) writes:
>> >They build two types of subs in 1964 in Germany in fiberglass.
>> 
>> The magazine said that, as of Janauary 1964, a two-place version would
>> be available by the Spring of '64.   The single-place version was for
>> sale
>> in September of 1963.   I bet if I looked back at boating magazines in
>> late '63 and early '64, I could find out a bit more.
>> 
>> >One is the doubleseater "TIGERHAI" which is now in the hand of Anders
>> >Lundin and you will find some pictures of it on the PSUBS picture
>> >Gallery. This sub use steel skeleton and fiberglass. Working deep was
>> >114 feet. One was sold to the USA.
>> 
>> The article I have here has a photo of a two-place sub, but there's
>> no name to it.   It's wide, it has amidships two thick planes and the
>> canopy is part of a cylinder (the single-seat sub has a hemisphere).
>> 
>> I suppose that one would be impossible to find, today.
>> 
>> I'll have a look at the PSUBS site.
>> 
>> >The other is the "HAGENBURG" a very nice single seater with a dive deep
>> >of about 164 feet. Some of this vessels was also sold to the USA.
>> >I think this vessel was a reinforced fiberglass boat and maybe some
>> >remains are still on the Keys...
>> 
>> The single-seat boat was called "S-24" in the article, but it was
>> reinforced with steel.   I think we can assume that we've found
>> the German origin of the boat.
>
>The S 24 was build together with the sisterships SM 64 and LM 63 
>by Eschholz and Company in Bremen, Germany (not more than 15 miles
>away from here). The S 24 was displayed 9/63 during the 
>Marine Trade Exhibit and Conference at the Harbour of Chicago.
>SM 64 and LM 64 were displayed on the Hamburg boat Show in 1/64. 
>Dive deep was 30m , test deep was 100 Meter. GFK was 10mm thick with
>steel skeleton inside. In 1964 one of this boats exploded 
>in 18m deep in the harbour of Monte Carlo and the acrylic dome
>destroyed. J.Boilly (a member of the Cousteau team) died. 
>This is not the Hagenburg typ but very simillar in design.
>Price for S 24 was 3450 Dollar the SM 64 and the LM 64 were 
>estimate by 9000 Dollar, each. 
>Sea also: Roe,J.: Now you can ownyour own ! U-Dive.U-Boat.
>Popular Science (11964) Jan., also in
>Frisch, C.: Pilote d'essai. L'arenture sousmarine (1965) 57, 281-283. 
>
>> Does "Hagenburg" have some maritime significance?  Is that the
>> name of the builder or of the city in which the boat was built?
>
>Hagenburg is the name of the inventor Graf Hagenburg, also the name of
>his factory. The sub was alos called Porpoise. He developt the 
>submarine on a request of his americans business friends.
>He and his employe G.Czerdebou build the boat in 5 weeks. 
>It was used in 1964 over 200 times down to 48 m deep. 
>I like the design its very simple. Inside the acrylic dome are two 
>handholders and you can surface with the dome only in case of emergency 
>and if you drop weights (310 kgs) are not useful.
>source: N.Gierschner, Tauchboote, Transpress Verlag , Berlin, 1980
>
>> 
>> >If fiberglass get real wet it will lost 30 % of the strength ..(maybe
>> >forever?)
>> 
>> And that detail could be very annoying, in a submarine.
>> 
>> >I have had two motorboats made from Fiberglass and foam. During my
>> >work to add a echosounder for a sonar I found out that both ships was
>> >wet in the foam. If you want to use fibreglass in a submarine do it
>> >without wood or foam.. Reinforced fibreglass seems better..
>> 
>> It would be interesting to talk with whomever purchased the little
>> German plastic boats . . . .
>
>You will find on Busby "Manned submersibles" page 66 a picture
>of another Tigerhai maybe number two because this craft use not 
>the acrylic domes. It was maybe owned by 
>Douglas Privitt, Gen.Oceanographics which take the picture.
>Also you find a picture of one Porpoise/Hagenburg at page 68.
>Its the picture on the top, left side.
>
>> 
>> >But if you build your submarine from fibreglass - to test them unmanned
>> >in a test tank or deep water 3-4 times of the working deep seems the
>> >only way to find out that you have not a mistake in your design.
>> 
>> Always a good idea to test the real thing!
>> 
>> I doubt that I'll ever think seriously about a fiberglass submarine, but
>> I'm not sure that it's a bad idea if one is building a boat designed to
>> dip just below the surface for a short while.   No more than 15 feet
>> down, for example.   (The average American Yuppie would love
>> something like this.)
>
>It is possible - Mountain climbers use high pressure bottles made from 
>fiberglass (maybe with a smallthickness steel cylinder inside).
>
>> 
>> Michael B. Holt                                Oregon Hill, Richmond,
>> Virginia, U.S.A.
>
>regards, Carsten - and if your spacecraft runs with lightspeed it will
>be back from alpha-centauri after about 10 years..